US Drinking Age

[CBranski]

Here's a question on which I would love feedback from other users: Should the US lower the drinking age for those under the age of 21 who either are in the military or eho live on their own? I beleive the answer is yes-if you take on adult responsibilities, you should get adult priviliges, period.

It would be easy enough to administer: Everyone has to got to a government agency (ie, the DMV) to get either a driver's liscense or ID card. To prove that you are on your own, a lease or property deed can be presented along with a utility bill. (For those places with utilities included, it should say so in the lease) As for the military, they already issue their own ID's. A code would be placed on the licenses or ID'S of those eligible, similar to codes that say you need glasses while driving, etc.

I understand the need to prevent drunk driving, but shouldn't we punish the offenders rather than finding a politically unpopular group to blame. It should be noted that most Western nations have a drinking age below 21. Also in most other nations, you face serious jail time for a DUI even for a first offense, whereas here you face a fine and inconvenience.

I post this because I was 20 when I moved out of my parent's home in 1991 and had to have my parents buy me beer for consumption in my own home! (And this in a state-Wisconsin-where 70% of the adults drink!)

I look forward to your comments.

[This message has been edited by CBranski (edited January 23, 2001).]

[Idnew]

Well for most law cases you have to be 18 to be tried as an adult then I think everything else should also be 18. I know what your saying I got on my own when I was 17. Same for cigs or tabacco products now you have to be I think 18 to buy them. Maybe that's been changed to 21 also.

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[paulgro]

Drinking on Military bases was 18. I don't know if that was changed or not. This country does seem to think everyone grows up at 21 and that's a crock. I've seen 60 year old's that shouldn't be allowed to drink and 15 year old's that should. It's the person not the age that makes you a responsible person.

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The US military dosen't generally try to encourage drinking among the ranks though... so that wouldn't be supported.

I'm glad that no one has said that since an 18 year old can be drafted they should be able to drink. I can't get social security checks... maybe that age should be lowered to 18 =)

[Serendipity]

How old do you have to be to vote in the US? Here (UK) it's 18, but you can leave school and start paying tax at 16. Drink: 18. Drive: 17.

Well in the US theres a different age for everything. Take driving for instance. In my home state of Georgia you get a learner's permit at 15 (you must drive with a parent or someone over 21 i believe), receive a driver's license at 16 (you may drive on your own between specific hours), and finally at 18 you get a driver's license with no restrictions. Drinking age is 21 while smoking age is 18. Pay taxes even if you are 1 week old, as long as you make over a certain amount (forgot amount, $3000-4000+ I believe). More examples I can't think of now, but you get the point. My opinion is there should be the same age for everything, period.

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[Lis]

Well how's this for a law....I'm allowed to smoke (being 16) but not allowed to BUY smokes.....so really, I'm old enough to consider the consequences of my habit but not old enough to hanlde the ever-so-difficult trip to the counter whereby I'd have to actually ASK yes, I said ASK for a packet and after that....now brace yourselves for this one....I'd have to give my money to the operator....**** glad we have that law!

But that's not really what your asking...I think that you should have 18 as a legal drinking age reguardless of whether you live on your own or not http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif I think you're all mostly old enough to make your own decisions by that age http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

[paulgro]

Our main problem is 50 States making their own laws. The state and not the Federal government decides what the law will be.
As for the military, they haven't any problem with drinking on base as long as you are of legal age. Federal government sets that drinking age on base, not the State the base is in.

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

[Code_Monk]

I think that if you are old enough to be in a profession where you could be shot at (military), you are old enough to drink.

[wendy66]

Code, I agree, but I'll take it a step further, you shouldn't even have to pay for the alcohol http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif(joking)Any law that pertains to an "adult" act should be the same as any other(which would be 18) IMO. I have to say that I think it should also apply to driving (sorry for all you younger people) I think that 15-16-17 are ages that most (I stress, most) people are a wee bit immature to handle the weapon that few thousand pounds of steel on the road can be.

[artsmass]

>Our main problem is 50 States making their own laws.<

The Govt threatened to withhold Federal highway tax dollars from states that didn't raise the legal drinking age to 21. I have no idea if they all have "complied" yet or not.

Don't worry, if the feds don't like how the states are conducting their own business, they *will* step in and use blackmail tactics.

[Idnew]

artsmass you got that right on the head

You can also sneak off to Ga and get married at 14 if you want to. Course if you come back to Florida and your parents find out they can have it annauled and the boy charged with something.

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[CBranski]

Response to Serendipity's question: the voting age in the US was lowered to 18 in 1971, and even before that some states allowed 18 year olds to vote in state elections.

One of the problems I have with the way the drinking age is administered is this: under the 10th Amendment of the US Constitution, the states are guaranteed rights that are not already granted to the federal government; which includes drinking ages. The fact is folks, some states (Wisconsin) are drinking cultures and some (Utah) are not. Shouldn't we decide that, and not the likes of Edward Kennedy? (Oh, by the way, how's Mary Jo? Freshen that drink up for you, Ted?)

Something else I plan to do: I'm going to forward my original idea to Congressman Jerry Kletscha (sp?) who represents the South Side of Milwaukee in the US House of Representatives. He's also a three time convicted drunk driver. I can't wait to hear what he has to say! And as for paying tax Serendipity, you don't have to be a certain age for that in the US. In that case, it seems you're suddenly all grown up!!

[This message has been edited by CBranski (edited January 23, 2001).]

[Lis]

*has a sudden image of children stumbling around drunk* well I think it's a pretty warped society!

[LawEn4cer]

whoah nelly!! don't get me started on this one... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I'm a firm believer that if you are old enough to vote and die for your country, I see no reason to believe an 18 year old isn't old enough to kick their feet up and enjoy a nice cold bottle of beer...if they so desire to. You know how many LESS drunk driving incidents society would have to put up with. No sneeking around, having to drive home drunk because you had to go to a party and get wasted off your *ss, proving one: ah hah! i got away with drinking! and two: if i'm going to sneek and drink might as well get drunk. What's the point?!?!
Personally when I turned 21 I really could give a rat's *ss if I had a drink. If 18, have a drink, there'd be no more..."ooohhh, look at me!! I'm breaking the law!!"
Though I do have to point out--it should be 18--drink beer only; 21--you can now have hard alcohol. In fact here in WI there were bars for 18 year olds to enjoy beer only. They were responsible and if there was a wasted case...they weren't allowed to drive. But then the law changed...good bye 18 year old bars... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif But you know it was voted on (the age)and guess what...most 18 year olds didn't vote...what were they thinking?!?! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
But I agree CBranski...the individual states should have the decission of what the drinking ages should be--not the federal gov.

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"...civility, character, compassion, and courage..." -George W. Bush

[saint]

i am not going to rush to drink but but so many of my friends that are younger then me do
i am not going to get them busted
*takes a sollow*
for them to drink they have to steal it or know a friend who drinks
mostly know a friend who drinks

but it is the same with smoking
but here in florida u can't buy or smoke cigrets or cigars
u get a fine if u where to be caught smoking http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/mad.gif

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[~wildangel~]

I started drinking at 16 and by the time I was 21 I didnt care If I had a license or not to buy alchol because I could get it without one anyways.The law should be that If your 18 you can legally buy your own alcohol and thats that!Because when I was 18 I just got someone else to buy me alcohol anyways!Any child can get alcohol now a days, I mean besides alcohol when I was 16 I also got weed and other things too!So It really doesnt matter what the lagal age is to buy the stuff the point is kids are gonna get it, weather they have to buy it themselves or not.It would just be easier If the law was 18 so that it would be legal for them and they would'nt feel like they were breaking the law.

[paulgro]

I started at 15, but that's not the point. Set an age and stick to it. To day it's 18 tomorrow it's 21 next week it might be 19 or 22.

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What age is the most immature? college age. I'm in that age group and i can tell you that 18 year olds shouldn't drink. Hormones and other stuff make it so easy for them to over due it or just do something stupid to look cool. I see it all the time. Even 22 to 25 year olds do it. They're the ones that throw the parties and 25 and below all act like total morones. They risk their lives, the people at the party, and others. It is totally retarted to even consider lowering it. I know many 18, 19 years olds who would go out right away, buy as much as they can, and get plastered. I also know many older people who do the same. There is no reason why alcohol has to be used this way. It doesn't take much to figure that out.

[Ada_Doom]

But what do American uni students DO? Most of the time that I'm not in lectures, I am in the pub! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif Seriously though, as far as DUI is concerned, my generation is much better than previous ones. For example, my Dad thinks nothing of drinking 3 or 4 pints, and then driving, and his friends and my friends parents are the same. If I am driving I drink lemonade. Always. So do all my friends. We definitely have much more of a thing about drink driving than any previous generations do. And I agree with code Monk's post. If you are old enough to join the army and to be executed for a crime, you are old enough to drink a pint.

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[CBranski]

The drinking age was set up ostensibly to curb drunk driving, but there's one thing we seem to have forgotten: when you don't punish bad behavior, it doesn't matter what innocent party you blame. A case in point is a recent case in Appleton, Wisconsin: a man came before a judge on the charge of his SIXTH DUI! (At six DUI's, one must wonder about the hundreds of times he drove without being caught.) The only reason he was caught was due to the fact that he hit another car. his BAC was .38, and one wonders how he was ever able to get in the vehicle.

At any rate, his punishment for this felony charge? Five days in jail, not for the DUI, but for driving on a revoked license! (The judge was impressed by the fact he went to alcohol treatment. Uh yeah, impressive indeed!) It should be obvious that calling a group of people adults but treating them as children does precious little good.

But I have a funny feeling The daisy chain will never be broken; alas the states and municipalities make a lot of money from underage drinking citations, and most people in my state at least don't want to really think about how they got home from the tavern this weekend...



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[~wildangel~]

Ada, I understand that one...if your old enough to fight in a war, your old enough to drink http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
We should be able to drink at eighteen in the good ol USA that is if you can call it good 'ol anymore http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

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[paulgro]

I went in the service when I was 19, was I old enough to drink? I thought so since I was doing it at 15. Problem is I didn't know when too stop until I fell down. I was taking booze and pills at the same time and got to work on 30 million dollar aiplanes at the same time. Really smart, wasn't it? What i'm trying to say is you have to take a drivers test, maybe they should also give you a reasponsibility test at the same time. Some people are never old enough to drink...

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It's suprising, but I believe I will be the first to suggest this. The drinking age should not be set by the federal or state government, not by the local government, in fact not by government at all. Whether a child can drink or not should be the responsibility of the parent/s. Teenagers do stupid things. I am a teenager and can testify first-hand to this since I have done stupid things and look foreward to doing so more in the future, because they are generally fun and I have the whole rest of my life to be careful. When a 16-year-old does something stupid like get drunk off of his/her ass they need to be grounded (if they get caught *fiendish grin*) and NOT sent to jail. I can perhaps understand requiring the age to BUY liquor being somewhere between 15 (I believe it's 15 in Belgium) and 21, since that would at least require an adult to be supervising, but just to drink it? Give me a break! I remember at 14 I drank way more whiskey than a human should and puked until I could swear I saw the inside of my stomach. Needless to say it was not pleasent and I have not put myself past a buzz ever since. Maybe not every one learns quite as quickly as I... but I'm just saying to let the parents decide, not Big Brother.

[~wildangel~]

I dont think parents should decide because there are so many parents out there that give todlers alcohol! They would be getting drunk with there kids all the time.
Theres too many losers out there for parents, people that dont even deserve to have kids. My old best friend Quail never thought her mom cared about her cause she started giving her drugs at the age of 12.
Quail never drank or did drugs when she was older because she didnt want to be anything like her mother...she wanted to live at our house http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

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[Ada_Doom]

That's a sad story, Wild. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

In the UK at least, you cannot buy alcohol, or consume it outside the home under 18, but it isn't, and never has been illegal to drink alcohol in the privacy of your own home at any age (there is an unconfirmed family story, that my Aunty put vodka in my cousins baby bottle to send her off to sleep sometimes) though, this could be qualified as child abuse under some circs. There are all sorts of other exceptions to do with who you are with, where you are sitting, and whether or not you are eating.

The British Press reaction to Jenna Bush being caught drinking was mainly derision along the lines of "she's a 19-year old college student, all students drink, it's what keeps the pubs afloat etc, etc"

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[RayH]

I think that the nation (U.S.) should RAISE the legal drinking age to about 104!

[Ada_Doom]

So effectively prohibiton under another name then Ray http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[RayH]

I don't drink. There's no soapbox issue. I just don't like the taste of the stuff. I do use alcohol in cooking though.

But I'm not in favor of putting more drunks out on the street than necessary. But if people want the right to drink, then they have to take responsibility for what they do. Full responsibility.

It appears the President's daughters are not responsible people! Spoiled brats at best. Idiots more likely.

[Ada_Doom]

Irresponsible they may be, but they have far more class than any under-age drinkers I know. We used to stick to crappy cider and lager, not Margharitas... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

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[~wildangel~]

OK raise the drinking age and then what? More ppl in jail that us taxpayers support!
People are going to drink at 12 if they want to.
I used to drink occasionally (usually weekend get togethers and barbecues) before I got pregnant ofcourse.
I cant stand the fact that some people drive drunk though, it makes me wish these types of people couldnt get alcohol!
Maybe when people are sent to jail for drinking and driving (DUI's) they should also get tattoo'd with "I drive drunk, do not sell me alcohol!" across there foreheads!

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Originally posted by Ada_Doom:
That's a sad story, Wild. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

In the UK at least, you cannot buy alcohol, or consume it outside the home under 18, but it isn't, and never has been illegal to drink alcohol in the privacy of your own home at any age

Actually, children aged under five can only have alcohol on doctors orders, 5-15 can drink in their own home with their parent's permission, 16-18 can drink in lisenced premises if it is with a meal, and over 18, well, need I say more that *hic*? :-)
btw, I turned 18 10 days ago, and I know which drinks I had were legal.

Here's an easy answer for this one: You can't put and age on responsibility! I've talked to several of my police instructors about how I would handle this if the law were up to me (with good responses!).
If I would see a bunch of young people say, 16, or 17 years old drinking, and they could show me that there were enough people there NOT drinking that could drive everyone home safely, if the law were up to me, I'd let them go. If, on the other hand, I came across a bunch of people, I don't care if they were all 60 or 70 years old, and not one of them was not drinking (to guarantee a safe ride home for everyone else), if the law were up to me, I'd arrest them. Think about it; who in that case IS more responsible-the young people who had enough sense to have a designated driver, or the older people JUST because of their age?
(I rest my case your Honor!)

Regarding Mr. Serendipity's comment about leaving school at 16.
There has been a law on the books for at least a decade now stating that you must either stay in school until you're 18, or until you graduate. (Not many people graduate at 16.)

Hi everyone. I'm from Canada and I was actually discussing this topic with my girlfriend the other day. Here the legal drinking limit is 18 (it's 19 in other parts of canada). Most people i know, when they started college (or were about that age) drank like fish. They partied like crazy, went out to clubs, and by the time they were in their early-mid twenties got that out of there system.

What seems really sad is when people are above there mid 20's and there still getting drunk on a regular basis. To me the drinking age being 21 is silly because when your 18-21 that is when you should be doing that type of stuff. Here are drinking age is 18 but it's very strict. You have to be 21 or 25 to get into alot of bars. I'm not saying people 16 or younger can't get alchol but it's very strictly enforced and easier to enforce.

Down there because your drinking limit is so high, everyone starts drinking underage and so it seems like more people drink at an even younger age because the laws such a joke people figure why try to follow it at all.

Personally i just find that really odd. I mean you can go to clubs at 16 but you can't drink till 21? What a waste... oh well at least I AM CANADIAN...

[paulgro]

Welcome to dumb laws, DrEvil24m...

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[Idnew]

Welcome DrEvil.

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[CBranski]

Originally posted by J. Frank Pinell:
Here's an easy answer for this one: You can't put and age on responsibility! I've talked to several of my police instructors about how I would handle this if the law were up to me (with good responses!).
If I would see a bunch of young people say, 16, or 17 years old drinking, and they could show me that there were enough people there NOT drinking that could drive everyone home safely, if the law were up to me, I'd let them go. If, on the other hand, I came across a bunch of people, I don't care if they were all 60 or 70 years old, and not one of them was not drinking (to guarantee a safe ride home for everyone else), if the law were up to me, I'd arrest them. Think about it; who in that case IS more responsible-the young people who had enough sense to have a designated driver, or the older people JUST because of their age?
(I rest my case your Honor!)

I definently see your point, and an example of what you said tragically occured here in Milwaukee. A 77-year old woman killed herself and her friend after driving her car through a fence surrounding Mitchell International Airport (Mitchell is a fairly large and busy airport served by about 11 airlines) and crashing into a fuel truck parked on the runway. What occured prior to this was the driver found that her Alcoholics Anonymous meeting was cancelled due to hot weather, so she and the friend decided to stop at a local restaraunt for martinis!

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Jennifer Lopez for Mayor

"I dont think parents should decide because there are so many parents out there that give todlers alcohol! They would be getting drunk with there kids all the time.
Theres too many losers out there for parents, people that dont even deserve to have kids."

Of course there are many irresponsible parents, but there are also many irresponsible politicians. If the drinking age was a weapon, would you rather it be a nutron bomb in the hands of an arrogant law maker, or a pellet gun in the hands of little Timmy's dad. Personally, I say **** little Timmy cuz an arrogant SOB pollitician with a big-assed ol' bomb is way scarier than one screwed up guy in therapy yapping about his alchoholic father. You seem to have the missconception that law can fix everything when it really blows up a whole city to squash a bug. Some things are just plain screwed up and we need to learn that we can't control them even with Big Brother's help... only set an example of what right living can do and hope people start to catch on.

[paulgro]

Nobody thinks law solves all problems. You need some type of guide line to follow or everybody does what they want. Whether the drinking are be 18 0r 21 doesn't really matter except to a kid that can't wait to have that first legal drink.

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[aclu14]

I think that people should make their own decisions about alcohol comsumption. I don't like the stuff that much myself. The most I've had in one sitting was 2 glasses of champagne and I almost fell down the basement stairs. I'm fourteen, and that episode was about a month ago.

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[paulgro]

If you let people decide how much they should drink, you'd never be able to drive on the highway with out getting in an accident. Most people don't realize when they're drunk or won't admit it.....

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