What is best method of execution? [Archive] - TD Talk(Formally Dumb Laws)

RayH

November 28th, 2002, 10:12 AM

Relative to human history, long term imprisonment is a relatively new concept. Prisons were used to hold people awaiting execution. Long term prisoners were usually put to work instead of lying idlely about on state expense.

Bullet to the head is quick and efficient, although messy and can spread disease. Hanging can be a quick method. The Nazi war ciminals were said to have been "slow hanged." They were choked to death rather than have their neck snapped.

I'm partial to China's recycling of condemned prisoner's body parts. Instead of allowing the criminal's conviction and execution be a total burden to the state, part of the expense can be recouped through the recycling of usable body parts.

kontulib

November 28th, 2002, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by FTale
I say crusifixation, because that way the criminals have to suffer in pain and agony and we get rid of them easily. That's the whole idea of death penalty, it just isn't said out 'n' loud...

(No, I don't support the death penalty, not really)

I don´t think at it is first reason for executions today (suffering pain). I think at the reason is kill persons who are threat to others life.

FTale

November 29th, 2002, 04:35 AM

Need to revenge, that's a big reason why we still have death penalty in some countries. It doesn't benefit anyone, but it satisfies the blood lust of the victim's relatives and friends. In this culture the usage of the most painful methods is forbidden but the electric chair isn't painless at all. The lethal injection is I think. Still, it's the answer to our need to revenge.

It would be wise to make the prisoners work for the good of others, building roads, bridges etc. Killing them is just another way to save money.

DV8

November 30th, 2002, 08:33 AM

Hmm, i think that it is absolutely sick when people gain their revenge by making others suffer. Absolutely disgusting. Scum of the earth... :mad

DV8

November 30th, 2002, 08:34 AM

Another method of execution is to be hung, drawn and quartered...

DV8

November 30th, 2002, 08:37 AM

I do think that the people who are a danger to society should be executed. What is the point of keeping them in jail? Waste of state expense... There is always a possiblity of the prisoner escaping, oh so they make a better security system... but what do they need for a better security system, for someone who is never gonna be let out anyway? Oh money...

DV8

November 30th, 2002, 08:38 AM

No I am not obsessed with money...:p

FTale

December 2nd, 2002, 03:44 AM

The big question is: Do we have the right to take another person's life, especially when it's not absolutely necessary? I know we have a society to run and sometimes harsh methods need to be taken, but killing someone...

DV8

December 2nd, 2002, 04:25 AM

*shrugs.

It's mostly just personal opinions. I dont believe there is a right or wrong in such a situation. Also should the ability to sentence someone to death be classed as relative or absolute morality...

...blah blah blah..

weldordave

December 3rd, 2002, 05:03 AM

Method of execution dictated by the person whom the crime was against. In issue of murder, where victim is now silent, let the execution befit the crime. All hail Texas! Republic of Victim's Rights.

Idnew

December 3rd, 2002, 08:16 AM

Personally I think they should be excuted in the same manner as their victim was killed. Slow stabbing, torture, whatever they did to their victim should be done to them. Or like Dave let the victims family choose the method.

Sjax

December 3rd, 2002, 09:18 AM

Welcome to the stone age, everybody:eek: Still dont get the civilized country thing, Dave?

DV8

December 3rd, 2002, 02:14 PM

:rolleyes: Maybe i can come to grips with Idnew's idea, but not sure about letting the victims choose the form of execution...

Idnew

December 5th, 2002, 08:36 AM

Until someone has actually had a family member or close friend actually killed by some idiot pscho it's hard to understand how you would choose to excute someone.

Here's an example: Many years ago when I lived in a small town in Texas a 2 yr old girl disappeared. The whole town including my husband went looking for her. The cop that lived next door to the little girl opened his house for a head quarters in his den and invited the law in and anyone for coffee or whatever. The little girl was found a couple of days later............in the closet of the cop in the den in a garmet bag.......dead of course and he had molested her. Naturally he was rushed out of town to an un-disclosed location. Trust a cop? NEVER!!!!!

kontulib

December 5th, 2002, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by Idnew
Until someone has actually had a family member or close friend actually killed by some idiot pscho it's hard to understand how you would choose to excute someone.

Yep, it is hard to understand, and if somebody kills some of my family member, of course I want to lynch him.
But when the case goes to court, I want at the offender gets life without parole.

jstnomega

December 7th, 2002, 04:52 PM

Hadn't heard of this means of execution till I read Ken Follet' The Pillars of The Earth re life in 12th century England. Seems they used to shackle the victim, disembowel them & set their innards ablaze.

Wonder if such today, in a public square forum, might not be something of a deterrent to crime. I'd go that far w/murderers & sexual predators, at least.

RayH

December 7th, 2002, 07:31 PM

If they've murdered someone I care about, then they should be buried to the neck at high tide mark at low tide. People can sit and watch as the water comes in.

If they've murdered someone I don't care for, probation and make them promise not to do it again.

Idnew

December 8th, 2002, 01:38 PM

:lol @Ray .......yeah think I would have to give them a medal or something myself if they got rid of someone I didn't like.......like a certain judge we have here

RayH

December 8th, 2002, 06:55 PM

Idnew You got a judge handing out 30 days for murder and rape?

weldordave

December 10th, 2002, 04:01 AM

Originally posted by Sjax
Welcome to the stone age, everybody:eek: Still dont get the civilized country thing, Dave?
Actually, I think a civilized country can come to grips with the REALITY that when, according to the laws and judicial system, a person must be removed from that civilized country. I do not expect a European or Asian or whatever to understand our morals when it comes to punishment as, I realize, our lack of understanding your drug laws, prostitution laws, or even your driver's license requirements. Our system of law is very English but our punishment is very American. But, but, but, let us not forget that American punishment is not the most severe in the world. AND that varies from state to state. So the very thought of compiling all punishment as American is absolutely ludicrous. There are 57 very DIFFERENT penal codes here. To lump it all together as you have directly reflects your narrow and limited knowledge on the subject.

Sjax

December 10th, 2002, 09:01 AM

Wow, I write 14 words and you are able to tell me about my narrow and limited knowledge on the subject.
I know that there are countries with more severe punishment, i.e. Afghanistan, Iran and China, but I would hardly think of them as civilized. There are only two democracies in the world who practices death penalty: USA and Japan.

I also know that the punishment is different from state to state, but if we are going to talk about USA as a country, we will have to generalize.

You write that a civilized society needs to get rid of its uncivilized members. Well, what if you could make these people civilised again.

Idnew

December 11th, 2002, 07:48 AM

Idnew You got a judge handing out 30 days for murder and rape? No but he sure makes some lousy rulings as far as divorces are concerned.

AWPrime

December 13th, 2002, 04:29 AM

I think executions should not be made to easy for the executioner. Because that devalues human lives as much as the acts of an murderer.

If you have to kill someone you must look them in the eye the entire time.:cool

sinecure

December 13th, 2002, 06:01 AM

As a concession to you the enviro-wackos, I'll propose we hook-up the death-sentenced prisoner to a solar-powered electric chair.

...and then hope for a cloudy day...:eek:

...so it might take a while...:p

Executions in Seattle would most likely be cruel and definitely unusual. It might take a couple of weeks to accumulate enough sunlight!:wink :lol

FTale

December 13th, 2002, 08:31 AM

So, let's assume you have a child, and some of you do. Well, this child of yours kills someone when he/she is fighting. His/her foe drops from a bridge and dies after thirty agonizing minutes. Sentence: death.

Would you still say that the killer should be thrown down from the bridge and then let him die. Would you want to see it?

I mean, civilized people do not fight. Thus the killer was uncivilized and needs to be got rid of...

Phreakmeister

December 13th, 2002, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by weldordave
our lack of understanding (...) even your driver's license requirements.

Off-topic:
What are driver's licence requirements over there?

DV8

December 16th, 2002, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by sinecure
As a concession to you the enviro-wackos, I'll propose we hook-up the death-sentenced prisoner to a solar-powered electric chair.

...and then hope for a cloudy day...:eek:

...so it might take a while...:p

Executions in Seattle would most likely be cruel and definitely unusual. It might take a couple of weeks to accumulate enough sunlight!:wink :lol
*laughs* :lol :lol :lol

DV8

December 16th, 2002, 05:03 AM

Anyways, my mama always said, "...to never stoop as low..."
So... *shrugs.*

My ma was wrong, so what.

weldordave

December 17th, 2002, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by Phreakmeister

Off-topic:
What are driver's licence requirements over there?
:lol Barely breathing. Pay the fee and you got a license. Harder for a CDL, but even that is laughable.:lol In my opinion, the roads are much safer in Euroland.

nacho cheese

December 22nd, 2002, 04:42 AM

I don´t think at it is first reason for executions today (suffering pain). I think at the reason is kill persons who are threat to others life.
Actually the first reason of execution is to remove the threat to the society, not to others life. What a society considers a threat varies in different cultures and over time.

You write that a civilized society needs to get rid of its uncivilized members. Well, what if you could make these people civilised again.
Who society considers as uncivilized varies again. For example disabled were considered as "uncivilized members" in Western World until early 20th century.

kontulib

December 28th, 2002, 11:24 AM

Some facts about death penalty in California.

Less than half of Californians support the death penalty over life without parole.

102 innocent men have been sentenced to death in the last 20 years.

To try a capital case costs $2.8 million, over twice the cost of life in prison.

The U.S. is one of only 6 countries in the world to sentence children to death.

sinecure

December 28th, 2002, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by kontulib
Some facts about death penalty in California.

Less than half of Californians support the death penalty over life without parole.

102 innocent men have been sentenced to death in the last 20 years.

To try a capital case costs $2.8 million, over twice the cost of life in prison.

The U.S. is one of only 6 countries in the world to sentence children to death.

Where did you get these "facts?"

You ought to look at who your sources are and listen carefully for the sound of an axe being ground. Of course anti-death-penalty sources are going to shade the truth in their benefit... or make up out-and-out LIES.

Got a list of those "102 innocent men" put to death in California?? I'd be very interested in seeing it.

At what age does your source decide that criminals are no longer "children"? I've seen some sources who count anybody under the age of TWENTY-FIVE as a "child".

:rolleyes:

Phreakmeister

December 28th, 2002, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by sinecure
Got a list of those "102 innocent men" put to death in California?? I'd be very interested in seeing it.

1. He said that 102 innocent people were sentenced to death, not put to death.

2. Between 1973 and August 1st, 2002, 102 innocent people (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/Innocentlist.html) were released from Death Row (there is specific information on the cases of innocence (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innoccases.html)). 3 Of these exonerations were from California (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innoc.html#state). There are also cases of those released from Death Row on the grounds of probable or possible innocence (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocothers.html#Released) (These people have not completely been exonerated and are technically still guilty of some degree of murder). There are also people who had their death sentences commuted to life in prison because of doubts about their guilt (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocothers.html#R-Poss). Then there are people who have been executed despite doubts about guilt (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocothers.html#executed).

At what age does your source decide that criminals are no longer "children"?

Out of 38 death penalty states in the United States, 23 allow the death penalty for children under 18. The only other countries to have the death penalty for people under 18 (juveniles) are the Democratic Republic (DR) of the Congo, Iran and Pakistan. Pakistan recently abolished the death penalty for juvenile offenders and the DR Congo has established a moratorium on executions. This leaves the United States and Iran as the only countries to fulfill juvenile executions.

sinecure

December 28th, 2002, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Phreakmeister

1. Where did he say that those 102 innocent people were in California? And where did he say that they were put to death? He said that 102 innocent people were sentenced to death, which, as you can see in point 2, is correct.

Leave your college, Phreak and get back to basic schooling-- I'd suggest you concentrate especially on reading and comprehension. :)

Note the first line of Kon's post:

"Some facts about death penalty in California. "

Now, in English, that means that what follows is relevant to the death penalty in California. YOU tell ME what it means in Finnish/Dutch/whatever.

[Face it, Phreak, you really aren't as smart as you wish you were. But somehow, I think you've heard that before.] :p :D

If you are gonna write AT me [as opposed to "to" me] about the American legal system-- especially from a position of self-assumed authority, you'd better know what-the-hell you're writing about. Your cut & paste "style" of discussion just won't work with me.

2. Between 1973 and August 1st, 2002, 102 innocent people (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/Innocentlist.html) were released from Death Row (there is specific information on the cases of innocence (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innoccases.html)). 3 Of these exonerations were from California (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innoc.html#state). There are also cases of those released from Death Row on the grounds of probable or possible innocence (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocothers.html#Released) (These people have not completely been exonerated and are technically still guilty of some degree of murder). There are also people who had their death sentences commuted to life in prison because of doubts about their guilt (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocothers.html#R-Poss). Then there are people who have been executed despite doubts about guilt (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocothers.html#executed).

Do you know what the difference between "not guilty" and "innocent" is?

Neither do the folks who write that whiner garbage for your anti-death-penalty sites.

Want me to further explain it to ya?:cool :p

The rest of my questions to Kon still stand unanswered...

Phreakmeister

December 28th, 2002, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by sinecure
Leave your college, Phreak and get back to basic schooling-- I'd suggest you concentrate especially on reading and comprehension. :)

Note the first line of Kon's post:

"Some facts about death penalty in California. "

Now, in English, that means that what follows is relevant to the death penalty in California. YOU tell ME what it means in Finnish/Dutch/whatever.

[Face it, Phreak, you really aren't as smart as you wish you were. But somehow, I think you've heard that before.] :p :D

Mistake which I noticed before you pointed at it. So that part of your post can be deleted, which I suggest you do, because it has become completely irrelevant.

kontulib

December 29th, 2002, 05:40 AM

http://www.deathpenalty.org/index_wrong_man/

Sorry. I thought at that site was talking about California because there reads at "less than half of Californians support the death penalty over life without parole". Well, that fact was talking about California.
I don´t know what area the other facts are talking about.

sinecure

December 29th, 2002, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Phreakmeister

Mistake which I noticed before you pointed at it. So that part of your post can be deleted, which I suggest you do, because it has become completely irrelevant.

Actually, Phreak, YOU have become completely irrelevant. Your constant "I know EVERYTHING and I am never wrong." attitude, as reflected here in your last post, is tedious.

Going back and materially editing your post so that you won't appear "wrong" is generally considered to be bad form on a discussion board. Your posts should stand as written... warts and all. Corrections, deletions, additions and any other substiantial changes should be done in subsequent posts.

The only remaining task for me is to determine "the best method of execution" [this thread's topic] for you. :lol :lol

Phreakmeister

December 30th, 2002, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by sinecure
Actually, Phreak, YOU have become completely irrelevant. Your constant "I know EVERYTHING and I am never wrong." attitude, as reflected here in your last post, is tedious.

:lol

Going back and materially editing your post so that you won't appear "wrong" is generally considered to be bad form on a discussion board. Your posts should stand as written... warts and all. Corrections, deletions, additions and any other substiantial changes should be done in subsequent posts.

If I wouldn't want to appear wrong, I would have edited it after you had mentioned it and I wouldn't have mentioned my mistake at all. But I noticed it before you mentioned it (actually while you were writing your response), corrected it and admitted it. I have the right to correct the mistakes I make. You may or may not like it, but I have that right, and I will use it. And damn, can I make 1 mistake in close to 1800 posts? (Not a word, dave, not a word)

I had overlooked the fact that K-Lib wrote that it applied to California. A stupid mistake, but a mistake. I have noticed that mistake, admitted it publicly (which was what you wanted, right?) and corrected my mistake.

sinecure

December 30th, 2002, 04:00 PM

I don't know, Phreak... perhaps there's a chance that you'll grow up to be a real man afterall!

:wink

Admitting your mistakes is a big step in that direction...

Jeff

December 31st, 2002, 04:30 AM

Something to think about...

In America today, the majority of murderers are not executed, any many of them do not even receive a full "life-sentence". The vast majority of those executed are the ones who have comitted multiple murders, and have done so in many instances, in a gruesome manner.

weldordave

January 12th, 2003, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by Sjax
Welcome to the stone age, everybody:eek: Still dont get the civilized country thing, Dave?
Amazing how I made a post, then IDnew somewhat agreed with me and sjax only has a snide remark to my opinion. Must be the typical Euro pee your pants approach to authority. Roll over! You should not be afraid to say like "...still don't get the civilized country thing, IDnew and Dave?" Well, if we don't get the civilized country thing, you sure don't get the free speech thing. Poor thing. Well, glad I can draw fire for Auntie ID.

Sjax

January 12th, 2003, 06:37 AM

Dave: The civilized country remark was directed at you because of another discussion we had when I wrote it. I had written that more civilized countries (than the USA) would try to find peacefull solutions instead of ambushing other countries all the time. You responded in a way that gave me the impression that you didnt think there were more civilized countries than the USA, and to show you what I meant I made this remark.

But OK, my fault. I should have foreseen that you couldnt manage two threads at the same time.

I am not afraid of Idnew. I somehow got the impression that she isnt a dangerous person:wink

weldordave

January 13th, 2003, 12:00 AM

Making my point, I thank sjax. Sjax, the mods little puppet.

BeetleJuice

January 13th, 2003, 12:37 AM

What I love is when the anti-death penalty people make statements that it costs so much to do the death penalty thing what with all the appeals and whatnot yet fail to recognized that those given life sentences or less also files massive appeals thus wasting money and court time etc....

zany

January 26th, 2003, 05:20 PM

I vote OTHER

I think we should deep fat fry all criminals and then eat them

King Solomon

January 26th, 2003, 07:40 PM

The death penalty was meant to be a deterent to crime. It is unfortunate that I could not vote for more than one as I would have voted for: Electric chair (without the wet sponge [see the film The Green Mile]), Hanging, Firing squad and the middle-age system of "Hung, Drawn and Quartered".

zany

January 27th, 2003, 04:31 AM

When you are KING you can shout "OFF WITH THEIR HEAD!" :smash

Phreakmeister

January 28th, 2003, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by King Solomon
I would have voted for: Electric chair (...), Hanging, Firing squad and the middle-age system of "Hung, Drawn and Quartered".

All at once? Won't that make a mess? :wink

King Solomon

January 28th, 2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Phreakmeister

All at once? Won't that make a mess? :wink

Well, not if you use enough visquine or maybe some old shower curtains, not to mention a piece of Kevlar behind the body to stop the bullets (a firing squad can do alot of damage to a kitchen wall :eek: :rolleyes: ) :lol

Oh, yea, let's not forget the BBQ afterward for the human flesh carnivore group

PARTY TIME :clap

DEAD ZONE

January 28th, 2003, 09:17 PM

Where the hell is firing squad!!

I need the damned practise.

Throw them to the lions.MUHAHAHAHAHA!
Uncivilzed Amerikans.
WHAAA:cry

Phreakmeister

January 29th, 2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by King Solomon
Oh, yea, let's not forget the BBQ afterward for the human flesh carnivore group

This reminds me of "Human Barbecue" by Jackass. Johnny Knoxville covered in meat jumping on a giant barbecue...

JPaulJ

January 29th, 2003, 11:42 AM

'Crucifixation'?

Sounds like a Bush-ism! :)

zany

January 30th, 2003, 04:54 PM

Well, i think getting stoned to death aint a bad option either. Thats probably what I would ask for. Laugh myself to death or overdose on munchies :clap

DV8

January 31st, 2003, 07:17 AM

I think, if I was gonna get killed, I would
leastly like to drown, stoned or buried. I'd like to be blown away, that way I wouldnt have a clue on what's happened...

Dogface

January 31st, 2003, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by RayH
Bullet to the head is quick and efficient, although messy and can spread disease. Hanging can be a quick method. The Nazi war ciminals were said to have been "slow hanged." They were choked to death rather than have their neck snapped.

I first must state that I have done my share of mammalian neck snapping. No, it was not in any criminal context. It did lead me to look into the matter, however, and this is what I have learned.

Death from "cervical dislocation" is not instantaneous, it is merely irreversible. What happens is that one damages the parasympathetic nervous system sufficiently that the diaphragm quits working. The victim eventually suffocates to death. "Fast drop" hanging is supposedly "merciful" because the jolt of the stop is supposed to knock the victim unconscious. It doesn't always work. The neck can be broken and death inexorable, but the victim can remain 100% conscious and aware for up to 5 minutes, aware that breath is no longer going in, aware of no longer feeling his own body, completely aware of everything, able to see and hear but not to move at all.

Like it or not, nothing beats massive cerebral trauma for "instant" death. Even "merciful" methods like injection are preceded by a long and exquisite psychological torture session. However, a ten-second-long frog-march to the wall, followed by a high-caliber, high-power slug in the base of the neck and out the forehead is actually far more merciful.

If done correctly, most victims won't get past the "Huh?" stage mentally.