UEFA Cup 2002/2003

[Phreakmeister]

And who do you think will win this year's UEFA Cup?

[Sjax]

For some reason I cant vote, but:Hertha BSC of course.

[King Solomon]

Originally posted by Sjax
For some reason I cant vote, but:Hertha BSC of course.

There Sjax, I voted for you since I don't follow the golf game anyway :wink

[Sjax]

Thank you, K-sol.

[Serendipity]

Liverpool! :)

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by Serendipity
Liverpool! :)

Vitesse!

[Serendipity]

Vitesse don't stand a chance!

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by Serendipity
Vitesse don't stand a chance!

You wish.

[Serendipity]

Originally posted by Phreakmeister


You wish.

I know!! :lol

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by Serendipity
I know!! :lol

If you say that long enough, maybe one day you'll start to believe it. Keep trying. :D

[Sjax]

No Phreak, I think you misunderstood. He knows that he wishes that Vitesse dont stand a chance:wink :)

[Serendipity]

Look, Vitesse lost at home to Liverpool, and they'll lose at Anfield as well. This is because Liverpool are a much better team. It's not rocket science! :lol

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by Serendipity
Look, Vitesse lost at home to Liverpool, and they'll lose at Anfield as well. This is because Liverpool are a much better team. It's not rocket science! :lol

Yupp. That's what we saw in Arnhem... The true result, looking at the match and chances should have been:
Vitesse - Liverpool 3-2

And Sjax: You're right. Hadn't looked at it that way.

[Serendipity]

Originally posted by Phreakmeister


Yupp. That's what we saw in Arnhem... The true result, looking at the match and chances should have been:
Vitesse - Liverpool 3-2You don't win matches by having chances, you win matches by scoring goals. So the true result was: Vitesse 0, Liverpool 1. Vitesse don't have a good enough striker - or should that ridiculous miss (off the post, then scuffed wide on the rebound) somehow count as a goal? Vitesse were outplayed, pure and simple. If Mustapha wants his nickname on his shirt, he needs to earn it. Liverpool could have played much better, granted, but they won. Hell, I'm not even a Liverpool fan! :lol

[Phreakmeister]

What matters is not how much you've scored in one match, but how much the score is after two matches. So don't cheer too early. If Vitesse win 0-1 on Anfield Road, there will be extra time. If Vitesse win 1-2, Vitesse are through. Liverpool hasn't won yet. The stupidest thing to do is underestimate Vitesse. Or have you forgotten what happened to Werder Bremen, the number 2 of the Bundesliga?

(Btw. My team isn't even Vitesse. My team is FC Zwolle, which beat Vitesse 1-0 earlier this season. And what again did Liverpool do against Vitesse?)

[Serendipity]

I'm not cheering at all, P-Meister, cuz I support Tottenham Hotspur! :)

BUT. There is a very strong chance that Liverpool will beat Vitesse at Anfield - they beat them away, are they likely to lose at home? It's not for me to make any kind of assessment of Vitesse in a practical sense, that's for Gerard Houllier and the team to do (it's their job). Liverpool want to win, and they sure as hell won't underestimate Vitesse, even after Vitesse's lacklustre performance in the first leg.Btw. My team isn't even Vitesse. My team is FC Zwolle, which beat Vitesse 1-0 earlier this season. And what again did Liverpool do against Vitesse?Liverpool beat them 1-0, a point you seem to have missed :wink :lol Let's wait 'til 12/12 to find out what happens next, shall we? :)

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by Serendipity
I'm not cheering at all, P-Meister, cuz I support Tottenham Hotspur! :)

I rest my case. This clearly shows that you have no idea of what true football is :wink (just kidding with you)

BUT. There is a very strong chance that Liverpool will beat Vitesse at Anfield - they beat them away, are they likely to lose at home?

Why not? If they manage to contain Owen, and if they play the ball over the ground, instead of through the air, then I don't see why Vitesse shouldn't win. I don't think Liverpool is that much of a team, to be honest with you. The team rests on Owen too much. Take him away, and Liverpool falls to pieces.
You can't deny, that in Liverpool's away match, Vitesse's home match, Vitesse far outplayed Liverpool in the second half and Liverpool was standing with their backs against the wall. The fact that Liverpool nonetheless won 0-1 was more due to Vitesse's inability to score than to Liverpool's quality. And why should they keep "not scoring" on Anfield? Why shouldn't Vitesse score on Anfield?

PS. Something I just realized: the brand of toilet paper we use is Dippy :wink :lol :clap :D :) :p

[Serendipity]

It may be true that Liverpool rely on Owen - but it's hard to fault them for that, since Owen is one of the best strikers in the world. It takes at least two good defenders to contain him, and although he scored only once against Vitesse, they failed to contain him many more times than that. Take him away? Who's going to take him away? Don't underestimate Danny Murphy and Stephen Gerrard either - both capable of scoring from midfield. Defensively, Hyypia and Henchoz are a great combination.

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by Serendipity
Take him away? Who's going to take him away?

The Vitesse defense. Or he might get injured. You never know. It happens.

Defensively, Hyypia and Henchoz are a great combination.

Henchoz??? Ok, there's no arguing about tastes...

[Serendipity]

Henchoz is the weaker of the two, I grant you.

[Phreakmeister]

Of Liverpool, only Owen is world class (and Dudek, in theory). Below that, there's a group of players who are good. Players like Hyypia, Heskey, Smicer, Murphy, Berger, Riise, Gerrard, Hamann, Baros, Xavier and Babbel. I personally think they're more of Southampton-level, with all due respect. They'd be a good middle-class team, sometimes near UEFA Cup qualification, but not much more. About average. Below them are a group of players who are ok. If these players would form a team, they'd stay in the Premier League, but they'd be the Ugly Ducklings of the Premiership. They'd be like Sunderland or the Bolton Wanderers (or Tottenham Hotspur :wink). Too good for the First Division, not good enough for the Premier League. I'm talking about players like Heggem and Partridge.

Liverpool is not Liverpool, it's Owen United.

[Serendipity]

And Vitesse?

[Phreakmeister]

Vitesse is the fourth club of The Netherlands. Because of financial problems, they had to sell most of their top players. Sikora went to Ajax, Diarra went to Olympique Lyonnais, Kreek went to AEK Athens and Van Der Schaaf went to PSV. Stefanovic would have gone to Barcelona or PSV. The transfer didn't happen, but it is very likely to happen this summer. PSV see Stefanovic as a replacement for Kevin Hofland, who is bound to leave PSV this summer.
Vitesse has 3 players who play for the Yugoslav national team (Jevric, Rankovic, Stefanovic), 1 for Ukraine (Levchenko), 1 for Slovakia (Zeman), 2 for Belgium (Claessens and Peeters), 1 for Burkina Faso (Zongo), 1 for Ghana (Amoah), several Dutch youth internationals (Hofs, Theo Janssen, Van Beukering, Dingsdag, Michael Jansen, Rojer), who are about to enter the main Dutch national squad, etcetera.

Vitesse has one of the strongest, if not the strongest, youth teams in The Netherlands, which is renowned for player education and development.

[Serendipity]

Well anyway, I'm still working out if you've insulted Liverpool or complimented Southampton! Gordon Strachan (not a cup-winning manager, but probably the most likeable manager in the Premiership) would be happy to swap his team for the players you mention, I'm sure. Personally, I find Vitesse to be at the Leeds United level, on and off the pitch (excepting off-pitch violence). That is, they should be doing great things and they're a great team on paper - but they don't play on paper! :lol

[Phreakmeister]

What I was saying, or trying to say, is that, imo, Liverpool are highly overestimated, and Vitesse are highly underestimated. Vitesse threw Werder Bremen, one of the best teams in Germany, out of the UEFA Cup. Vitesse drew 3-3 in Bremen, which is something not many clubs have accomplished in the last few years, and won 2-1 at home. Liverpool didn't come further than two draws against FC Basel (1-1 on Anfield, 3-3 in Switzerland). Vitesse are better than FC Basel, while Liverpool is about equal to Werder Bremen. Liverpool shouldn't be too lenient about their home match. The situation for Liverpool is partly sunny, but not as sunny by far as some present it. If Liverpool want to win, they definitely have to play better than in Arnhem, and to be honest with you: I don't think they can play much better than they did in Arnhem.

[Serendipity]

If Liverpool want to win, they definitely have to play better than in Arnhem...Same goes for Vitesse. It's quite easy to underestimate Liverpool too, just as you're doing. Your comparison with Southampton exemplifies this, when anyone who knows the Premiership knows that even without Owen Liverpool are far better. Liverpool is Houllier's team, not Owen's.If Liverpool want to win, they definitely have to play better than in Arnhem, and to be honest with you: I don't think they can play much better than they did in Arnhem.How can you say that? Have you seen the team lineups? The Vitesse gameplan? Come on, at Arnhem, Vitesse wasted the few chances they had and made themselves look ridiculous, while Liverpool took their chances. That's the difference between a winning team and a losing team. Mustapha wants to have "Sone" on his shirt: Owen wants to win the silver. :p :lol

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by Serendipity
Same goes for Vitesse. It's quite easy to underestimate Liverpool too, just as you're doing. Your comparison with Southampton exemplifies this, when anyone who knows the Premiership knows that even without Owen Liverpool are far better.

Than what? Arsenal? Chelsea? Manchester United? Charlton Athletic? West Bromwich Albion? Kidderminster Harriers? Leigh RMI?

Liverpool is Houllier's team, not Owen's.

True, but Owen is more than just the star player of the team, he's the glue that holds everything together.

How can you say that? Have you seen the team lineups? The Vitesse gameplan? Come on, at Arnhem, Vitesse wasted the few chances they had and made themselves look ridiculous, while Liverpool took their chances. That's the difference between a winning team and a losing team.

You wanna say that Liverpool played such a splendid second half? Liverpool played a great first 30 minutes, in which they scored from 1 chance. But still, it is only 1. 1 goal isn't all that much.

Mustapha wants to have "Sone" on his shirt: Owen wants to win the silver. :p :lol

You're confusing Rahamat "Riga" Mustapha with Kalle Sone...

[Sjax]

I dont understand the idea of this discussion. We all know that whoever wins this match will be beaten by Hertha BSC later, so whats the point?

[FTale]

Why can't I vote for Myllykosken Pallo?

[Sjax]

Are they still in the cup?
Well anyway, I think you should vote for Hertha BSC.

[Phreakmeister]

Dippy, have we been looking at the same match? Haven't you been looking at Basel - Manchester Utd.? Both matches on the continent, both matches in a small stadium, both English teams in red.

And no, MyPa are no longer in the UEFA Cup. They lost to Odense BK of Denmark in the qualifying round

[Sjax]

Originally posted by Phreakmeister
And no, MyPa are no longer in the UEFA Cup. They lost to Odense BK of Denmark in the qualifying round
:clap :clap OB My club in Denmark. A bit embarrasing that I didnt know. Did you know that OB knocked Real Madrid out in 1993. Probably the best result ever made by a danish club (OK Brøndbys victories over Liverpool and FC Bayern are classics too - in Denmark anyway)

[Phreakmeister]

Did you know that OB knocked Real Madrid out in 1993. Probably the best result ever made by a danish club (OK Brøndbys victories over Liverpool and FC Bayern are classics too - in Denmark anyway)

Aaaawwwww how sweet.

Need I remind you of Feyenoord 1970, Ajax 1971, 1972, 1973 and 1995, PSV 1988 in the Champions' Cup/Champions' League? Ajax 1987 in the Cup Winners Cup? Feyenoord 1974, FC Twente 1975, PSV 1978, AZ 1981, Ajax 1992, Feyenoord 2002? :wink

Check this out:
UEFA Cup club ranking (http://sathanasias.bravepages.com/f-teams/f-trank-ec3.html) (1956-2002)
UEFA Cup country ranking (http://sathanasias.bravepages.com/f-teams/f-crank-ec3.html) (1956-2002)
Cup Winners' Cup club ranking (http://sathanasias.bravepages.com/f-teams/f-trank-ec2.html) (1960-1999)
Cup Winners' Cup country ranking (http://sathanasias.bravepages.com/f-teams/f-crank-ec2.html) (1960-1999)
Champions League club ranking (http://sathanasias.bravepages.com/f-teams/f-trank-ec1.html) (1955-2002)
Champions League country ranking (http://sathanasias.bravepages.com/f-teams/f-crank-ec1.html) (1955-2002)
Club ranking in all European football competitions combined (http://sathanasias.bravepages.com/f-teams/f-trank-all.html) (1955-2002)
Country ranking in all European football competitions combined (http://sathanasias.bravepages.com/f-teams/f-crank-all.html) (1955-2002)

[Sjax]

Brøndby is better placed than Manchester United:eek: :confused: :clap


Well anyway FulhamHertha BSC 0-0

Hertha BSC won 2-1 in Berlin.

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by Sjax
Brøndby is better placed than Manchester United:eek: :confused: :clap

What ranking are you talking about?
Because on the overall ranking, Man Utd. are 12th, while Brondby are 78th, AGF Arhus are 140th, FC Copenhagen are 177th, OB Odense are 214th, B1903 are 219th, Vejle are 225th, KB Copenhagen are 258th, Esbjerg are 260th, Lyngby are 266th, Randers Freja are 324th, AB Copenhagen are 325th, Hvidovre are 344th, Frem are 346th, Silkeborg IF are 357th, B1909 are 365th, AaB Aalborg are 368th, Viborg FF are 467th, Herfolge Koge are 484th, B1913 are 526th, Naestved IF are 529th, Midtjylland are 540th, Staevnet Copenhagen are 560th, Fremad Amager are 568th, Staevnet Odense are 590th, B93 are 614th, Ikast FS are 620th, Holbaek BK are 621st, KBU Copenhagen are 669th, Koge BK are 728th, Vanlose IF are 740th and B1901 Nykobing are 750th on a total of 776 teams.
And F-Tale and K-lib, guess where numbers 767 and 770 comes from?

And yes, Dippy, I know the result of Liverpool - Vitesse...

[Sjax]

I am talking about this one (http://sathanasias.bravepages.com/f-teams/f-trank-ec3.html)
Brøndby is number 51 and Man U is 92

There is quite a lot of the clubs you have listed that I have never even heard about. Guess they had their time of glory before I was born.

[Phreakmeister]

You know why Man Utd. are lower than Brondby? Brondby can't get any higher than EC 3, while Man Utd. almost always plays higher than EC3. :wink

[Sjax]

I know. I wasnt suggesting that Brøndby was any better than Man U. Tho' I wish they were.

[Phreakmeister]

No offence meant, but:
What, besides Euro 1992, have been the biggest successes for Danish football so far? Odense BK - Real Madrid, Brøndby - Liverpool and Brøndby - FC Bayern?

[Sjax]

The three things you mention is probably the best results danish clubs have ever had, but danish clubs sucks. Brøndby has had some good results over the years and have actually beaten FC Bayern more times than FC Bayern has beaten them (I think they have met a couple of times). In 1991 they made it to the UEFA-cup semi-finals, which is the best result ever by a danish club. They made it with a couple of later stars like Peter Schmeichel and Brian Laudrup (I think) on the team. They were beaten 0-0, 1-2 by AS Roma in the semifinal.

The danish national team is better. Best result of course Euro 92, but they also won the Intercontinental Cup in Saudi Arabia the next year with a 2-1 victory over Argentina in the final.
Not the most famous and prestigious cup, I know, but a victory is a victory. Apart from that they have made some very good single results beating Italy, France, Czech Republic, Germany and a 1-1 with Holland in the past two years.

[Sjax]

The three things you mention is probably the best results danish clubs have ever had, but danish clubs sucks. Brøndby has had some good results over the years and have actually beaten FC Bayern more times than FC Bayern has beaten them (I think they have met a couple of times). In 1991 they made it to the UEFA-cup semi-finals, which is the best result ever by a danish club. They made it with a couple of later stars like Peter Schmeichel and Brian Laudrup (I think) on the team. They were beaten 0-0, 1-2 by AS Roma in the semifinal.

The danish national team is better. Best result of course Euro 92, but they also won the Intercontinental Cup in Saudi Arabia the next year with a 2-1 victory over Argentina in the final.
Not the most famous and prestigious cup, I know, but a victory is a victory. Apart from that they have made some very good single results beating Italy, France, Czech Republic, Germany and a 1-1 with Holland in the past two years.
The most famous national player is probably Schalke 04s Ebbe Sand, who btw also started his career in Brøndby.

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by Sjax
The most famous national player is probably Schalke 04s Ebbe Sand, who btw also started his career in Brøndby.

What about Jon Dahl Tomasson and Morten Karlsen?

[Serendipity]

And yes, Dippy, I know the result of Liverpool - Vitesse...So do I - Liverpool 1, Vitesse 0, and the goal scored by Owen, like in the away leg. It just goes to show the difference made by having a world class player on the team...

Other than that, I won't rub it in, 'cos I'm a nice guy and a Spurs fan :) :lol

[Sjax]

Another six minutes, and they would have been there!No good, overpayed, spoiled kids :mad

[Phreakmeister]

Draw for the quarter finals:

Málaga CF v Boavista FC
Besiktas JK v S.S. Lazio or Wisla Kraków
Celtic FC v Liverpool FC
FC Porto v Panathinaikos FC