Tougher Laws

[TV_Guy]

In New Zealand recently we've had debate about harsher penalties for crims. I just set the scene for anyone not familiar with NZ.

4 Million Population.
Less than a 100 homicides per year.
(Guesstimation) About 80%-90% of murders solved.
A murder gets roughly 40-50 police working on it.

Recently there's been a trend of a violent new crime dubbed Home Invasion. This is where armed offenders break into homes, terrorise the home owners and rob the house. Often hurting/killing the home owners.

In a case a couple of years ago, an eldery women's house was invaded, they beat the hell out of her and robbed roughly $20.

The women's son started a campaign for tougher penalties after the crims only got a few years. For a citizen to get a official Referendum taken, he must get enough signatures on his petition. This man got the signatures needed and the referendum was taken. An overwhelming 80% of the population voted for stricter penalties for violent criminals and repeat offenders.

That was two years ago, since then the government has done...SQUAT.

Most the people feel strongly about this issue, some even want the death penalty introduced.

Thoughts on tougher penalties etc...

Tougher penalties WON'T work. What you need to defend against home invasion is a gun, some good training, and the willingness to use it.

[Serendipity]

What's the situation in NZ regarding gun ownership, TVG?

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[Sephirstein]

I'm not sure...But it seems that outside of the USA, guns aren't looked upon very highly in the Western world.

[Phreakmeister]

Death penalty won't change a single thing. The only thing that will help eradicate crime, is a change of mind. You can kill criminals, but if you don't tackle what drags them to crime, then you won't get any results. You will just get more executions.

Just look at the US:
Crime rates in states without the death penalty are lower than crime rates in states with the death penalty. And I'm not talking about petty crime here. I'm talking about serious, violent crime.
This to me clearly shows that death penaly is no solution in trying to solve crime.

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Do you believe in death after life?

[weldordave]

Originally posted by Sephirstein:
I'm not sure...But it seems that outside of the USA, guns aren't looked upon very highly in the Western world.
That is a shame. 16 loaded guns throughout my house and carry a sidearm every day. Like Mr. T said "I pity the fool....." Everybody armed=fatal respect. Kinda like the cold war. This will have to do till the JUDICIAL system gets off its ass. Criminals, like animals, only go after the weak and defenseless.

[Phreakmeister]

Sure, in your hands those guns may be safe, but they weren't really safe in Littleton, Colorado, were they? And in all those other school shootings?
The guns are not the problem, those people carrying guns are the problem. And that's why licenses are necessary, to prevent the freaks in society from getting their hand on guns.
Because remember, guns are the most dangerous conventional weapons known to mankind.

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Do you believe in death after life?

[weldordave]

I disagree. The guns in Colorado were completely safe. They did not misfire, jam, or blow up. They performed exactly as they were designed to. The misguided and mentally stunted kids were the unsafe weapons. And their parents are also unsafe for letting loose these little retards on our society. If not guns it could have been bombs, gas, poison, 1000 rattlesnakes, or maybe A PLANE LOADED WITH FUEL. Don't get me wrong. I do not think that everyone should go around carrying iron. I just think that people are quick to blame guns for all evils. Besides, America needs to be armed in case those wacky Canadians try to invade us!

I would have to agree with weldor. I like the saying "Guns don't kill people. People kill people."

Additionally, though people may disagree with me, there are entirely too many gun laws in the US already. The only problem with these laws is the fact that many conflict with one another, override one another, or leave loopholes.

I also have a response to phreak's statement above regarding the higher crime rates in states with the death penalty. One must be skeptical of this statistic (if this is actually correct at all). Does the death penalty encourage violent crime or does high rates of violent crime in a state encourage the use of the death penalty?

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

[This message has been edited by Jeff (edited February 14, 2002).]

[Phreakmeister]

See, and that is exactly what I said: "Guns are safe, until they get in the wrong hands. Then they become a huge danger"

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Do you believe in death after life?

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by Jeff:
I also have a response to phreak's statement above regarding the higher crime rates in states with the death penalty. One must be skeptical of this statistic (if this is actually correct at all). Does the death penalty encourage violent crime or does high rates of violent crime in a state encourage the use of the death penalty?

You got a point there.
In order to answer that question, you just have to look at the history of crime. The death penalty was in most states before violent crime. However, the death penalty does not encourage violent crime. The statistic however shows, that the death penalty does not effect crime rates.

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Do you believe in death after life?

[weldordave]

The statistic however shows, that the death penalty does not effect crime rates.

[/B][/QUOTE]
You are right about this Phreak. But the death penalty DOES effect criminal population rates.

[Phreakmeister]

Yeah, but by the time the system has killed one criminal, the crime scene will have gained 50 new criminals.

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Do you believe in death after life?

[weldordave]

Phreak, I agree with you again. This could start a trend!LOL How do you feel about this: instead of "death row" we have "death week".

[Serendipity]

Boy, am I glad to see this!! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[Idnew]

oh groan and why is that Dip?

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[Enforcer]

About the Death Penalty thing

I totally agree, Phreak!
('t zal de Nederlandse mentaliteit zijn)

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LOVE and PEACE!

Maybe I'll get more pessimistic with the years but I hope I never will!