Serious Teens Opinions Wanted

[Idnew]

On a few adult boards we have been discussing all the teens shooting their peers. We as adults have our opinions on what may be causing this.

Since we have quite a few teens on here we would like your opinion and hope we can get into a reasonable discussion with you about this.

Please be as blunt as you want or even to discussing your problems if any with us. We are here to help if we can and not judge. We will listen to your opinions if you promise to listen to ours without anyone getting their feelings hurt.

Some of you may be shy and don't want to post but I want you to know there is no reason to be shy. If you've just been lurking and not posting you know we're a friendly bunch and can get serious as well as silly. So if you have been lurking and would like to speak up on this subject please do so.

My opinion goes all the way back to putting the parents to blame. As this is already long I will go into it more later on why I have this opinion.

Now please lets get a good discussion going on this because the problem seems to be increasing on these shootings and speaking for myself I'd like some young people's opinions on this.



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(ö¿ö)Too Many Freaks, Not Enough Circuses(ô¿ô)

My Home Spot (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/Doing_Whatever.htm) My Family (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/MyFamily.htm)

part of the problem is that many teens have no emotional support from anyone. they don't know how to vent, don't know how to unload their feelings. often when they are depressed or angry they have no friends close enough to them that they would trust enough to talk to. after time their emotions build up and they are practically driven to do these things.

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--our father

[paulgro]

Welcome to the board. If your bio reads right, you're not a teen. Please let them speak first and then we can give our opinions. By trying to guess what's in todays teen mind, our opinion is worthless.

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[Lis]

Hey OF! Welcome and all http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif
Without dampening your welcome I just want to say that whilst I agree with you on most of what you said I dont think that it's really true that teens dont have alot of emotional support.....maybe I live in a lucky town, state, country....I dont know, but it seems to me that society makes alot of concessions for teens.....thats not to say that we're treated 100% fairly at all times I just mean that lack of emotional support isn't really as true as maybe lack of accepting emotional support?Still, different people lash out for different reasons and that could well be one of them.

*shrugs* well Id if it's insight into why these shooting occur that ya want then frankly I can't help you? I don't know what drives a person to do it, teen or not. I mean yeah, teens are often put under alot of pressure and stress....but isn't everyone? It seems to me that these teens are having the same problems everyone has at this age but they're taking it to the extreme.....I have to say that I agree with your opinion that often it's alot to do with how they've been raised, the support & attention they get etc etc but really there's no excuse.....I'm fasinated by what makes a person think that because they're having troubles with themselves they have the right to....well....shoot someone....I'm as stunned as you!



[This message has been edited by Lis (edited March 15, 2001).]

[Idnew]

Welcome OF.

Lis your a very intellegent teen and maybe your home life is just fine. I also believe this is more of a US problem than a UK problem but can you honestly tell me that all your friends are living in well adjusted and emotionally stable homes? If that is so then that is great. Maybe the parents in the UK do a better job of raising their children than we do anymore. Lis are you saying that the teens have emotional support but some don't want to accept it from their parents or peers?

Our Father part of the problem is that many teens have no emotional support from anyone. they don't know how to vent, don't
know how to unload their feelings. often when they are depressed or angry they have no friends close enough to
them that they would trust enough to talk to. after time their emotions build up and they are practically driven to do
these things. I think you have pretty much hit the nail on the head for part of it but I don't know if that is all of it.

I'm asking the teens what do they really want from a parent. Not what they give you materally.

[This message has been edited by Idnew (edited March 15, 2001).]

[xV35ballx]

One of the things that I think would make a huge difference in the lives of teens (myself included) is having an adult who will LISTEN. NOT offer advice. NOT critisize. NOT talk down to us. Just LISTEN. If there were more adults willing to do that (parents or not), things would be a lot different. I know I would be a LOT more willing to listen to the opinions of an adult who listens to mine as well.
Another thing is the way the media almost glorifies the shooters. I've heard that at least a few of the teens who do the shootings are looking for attention of any kind, & having the media get all involved really helps add fuel to the fire. And the amount of violence in video games, movies, etc. doesn't help any either. It just makes it seem like it's totally natural to shoot things/people & blow things/people up. It really desensitizes us (all people), even if you claim it doesn't have any effect on you.

[paulgro]

Anybody else?

Im 16 and I live near the area where Santana highschool is, in one of the recent highschool shootings. In fact, I just visited the school today. Anyways, my thoughts on school shootings, are that there isnt enough intevention from parents, teachers, friends, etc. Being a teenager myself, it seem the problem isnt feeling anger and letting it build up. For the kid that brought a .22 to school, i doubt he kept to himself and bottled his feelings. In fact, there were 22 people that knew he was angry enough to bring a gun to school. What it was--that i see-- is the repetitiveness of being bullied, teased and outcasted. He decided that it would continue unless he put a stop to it.

Our Father

quote:
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part of the problem is that many teens have no emotional support from anyone. they don't know how to vent, don't
know how to unload their feelings. often when they are depressed or angry they have no friends close enough to
them that they would trust enough to talk to. after time their emotions build up and they are practically driven to do
these things.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eh.. Teenagers know how to vent their feelings. We have plenty of emotional support. Thats not the case in these school shootings. Again, in the Santana case, "andy" knew how to vent his feelings, and he had numerous people to talk to. However, he chose to vent in the wrong way. Instead of using a non-violent method of taking out his anger, he injured and killed several of his classmates. He didnt bottle up his feelings, or have a lack of support. He just let his feelings get the best of him. What he lacked, was SELF-CONTROL. This is what is causing school shootings. Improper parenting, and very little control. When parents dont discipline at all, and let their child do as he/she pleases, the child will not learn how to control their behavior. There is no doubt that this age is very emotional, and most of us are too immature to be independent, and it shows in cases like these.

nvvMAN

[Idnew]

Welcome nwman. Thank you so much for your input.

ballx is saying adults want to just give their opinions and not listen. I can agree with that. Thankfully I am one of the adults that will listen and have a very good relationship with younger people. I think we should listen and then give our opinion if asked for and from what I have found out from younger persons is they want to talk, talk, talk and then they want my advice. That is how it should be and if they take it fine and if they don't welllll. One friend of mine asked my opinion on a guy she was going with, I gave it to her she ignored it then later said I wish I'd have listened to you then she did and today she is a much happier person.

nm so what needs to be done to get self control from a teen? or even an adult. That is something the individual must learn to get on his or her own. So did Andy have problems with the kids in general, the ones he did shoot or was he just shooting at nobody in particular to vent and if so what was he venting about if you know?

[paulgro]

Welcome to the board, thanks for talking!!

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[Lis]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Idnew:
[B]Welcome OF.

Lis your a very intellegent teen and maybe your home life is just fine. I also believe this is more of a US problem than a UK problem but can you honestly tell me that all your friends are living in well adjusted and emotionally stable homes? If that is so then that is great. Maybe the parents in the UK do a better job of raising their children than we do anymore. Lis are you saying that the teens have emotional support but some don't want to accept it from their parents or peers?[B/]

No....god no....Id, some of my friends live in the most shockinly red-neck (narrow minded), old fashioned, abusive or simply unstable homes you can imagine, well close to it....but, when they are depressed, upset, angry etc etc they deal with it or they talk to people about it....they dont over-react and they sure as hell dont pull a gun.

My point about not accepting emotional support is that many teens are too proud to....I use to be one of them (not quite to a harmful extreme though). It's not easy, as you all know, admitting that in some ways you're vulnerable and confused and need help, so ppl keep it to themselves until it causes some serious damage.

....and you're quite right about this not being a problem in Australia (not the UK silly http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/tongue.gif) infact it's so much not a problem that I dont think it's ever happened....that could have something to do with the fact that guns are not easily accessed here with our gun laws though???

[Ada_Doom]

Is the shooting thing maybe just an exaggerated reaction to the same things that cause teenagers to turn to drugs, or petty crime, or to get pregnant? There is a current case in the UK of a girl who has been convicted of aiding and abetting a gang rape (I'm not sure how old she is, but under 22 I think). According to the papers, she was very unpopular at school, and had no friends, which led her to join a local gang, some of whom are those accused of the rape (one of them is 15, the other 18). Could this be a different reaction to the same/similar problems?

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Cake or death?

[paulgro]

It could be. Most of the shooting were done by teens that were unpopular or just very quiet in school. It was like they wanted to be noticed and might have had a death wish, but didn't have the nerve to kill themselves.
I'm coming to the conclusion that America is raising a lot of weak kids. We give them everything they want and when they can't get something they go off the deep end. Most teens are good and try to do the best they can with what they have, but a small group of teens is what makes the news. I won't bring up names. We have people on this board that had bad childhoods, but turned into good adults. That's because they were strong not weak. Maybe here in this country we should go back to some of the old ways and teach reponsibility for your actions again.

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

I'm not sure if I should weigh in on this topic b/c I'm not a teen any longer, but I think I'm close enough (not yet 20 1/2) so I am going to.

The person who suggested that it's the same pressures that lead to teens joining gangs, getting pregnant etc. has a point. I suspect that this is part of it.

I also think that self-control is an issue, Parents more and more have a tendancy to coddle their kids. My mom works in a day care and told me about one mother who called her mom b/c her 3 year old didn't WANT to leave the day care and she couldn't convince the child to leave. This is of couse crazy. The child is three pick her up and put her in the car. Admittedly this is an extreme example, but it's crazy the stuff parents do to keep their kids happy. No wonder they don't deal well when they are not happy. I also believe in corporal punishment, which is now pretty much considered child abuse.

Also being a teen is hard. We usually have jobs, often have to pay car insurace, have our own cars, have to choose a college, apply, worry about how to pay for it, etc. When my parents were my age not all teens had their own cars, they borrowed their parents cars. College was not a must. Doing enough to get by in High school was okay. Now you have to work your butt off to get into a good college and get the scholarships to pay for it. In addition you have to be involved in a lot of extracurricular activities, because colleges look at that to.

Also there is the fact that parents want to give their kids more freedom and treat them like adults, but that means some kids abuse that freedom, so the government makes laws, and other places make rules, that discriminate against all teens. Some malls no longer allow teens without a parent after a certain time. The government is moving toward graduated drivers liscene. A balance needs to be found here too. Teens are not adults, physically yes (mostly), but not emotionally, they need the period of easing in, but the control needs to come from home. Parents can control their kids on a one on one basis. As it is Jimmy causes problems at the mall, this means Josh, John, Sue, Andrea, and Jen can't hang out there on Saturday nights and Jimmy probably sneaks in anyway. If parents dealt with it as they should, then Jimmy would be at home, and the other five would be having fun at the mall.

Sorry this got so long, but no one thing can possibily explain it.

[paulgro]

Thanks for the reply. We want to hear from people your age, like you said you're close enough. I'm 51, I know what it was like when I was a teen, but I can't know how it is now unless people speak out. Thanks again...

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

Your welcome. And let me stress how tough choosing a college can be. You have to balance what you what with what your parents want and what you can afford, and that's not always easy. Especially as you are gearing up for graduation, and have developed a bad case of senioritis. The parents thing is tough, They are paying for it, but you probably want to get as far away as possible from them. I know I did. They aren't bad but I'm just sick of being parented.

[Idnew]

Thanks Cecile we want everybodys view point. Just wanted the teens to kind of get us started a little and everybody talk about it.

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(ö¿ö)Too Many Freaks, Not Enough Circuses(ô¿ô)

My Home Spot (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/Doing_Whatever.htm) My Family (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/MyFamily.htm)

[xV35ballx]

I know I mentioned earlier about listening. But another part of listening is NOT telling your own story. Yes, it might help us. Yes it might be entertaining. Yes we might learn something from it. But PLEASE don't tell it while we're trying to tell our own story.
Another big thing to me is how all of us teens are treated the same. We aren't the same. I've been forced to mature faster than most of my peers. There are things I can see & understand that, to be quite honest, most people don't see until they are much older. I really wish more people would take the time to get to know us as individuals instead of lumping us as a group & saying we're all the same. 'Cause we really aren't. I've been through more in my 18 years than a lot of adults have been through in their whole lives.
I will admit that teens a lot of times lump all adults together, just as adults lump us together. And I know the effects of that are just as bad as all of us teens being lumped together.
Please don't think I'm saying all adults do or don't do the things I've mentioned. I know many adults who don't fit the mold I've described. I know first hand the problems that come along with stereo-typing people.

[paulgro]

You're 100% right! That's why all this bother's me. the different generations can talk back and forth on these boards and get along fine. Most likely out in the street neither group would even talk to each other. The conversation would be hi and goodbye. So why can we talk here, but not out there?????

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

An interesting example of what ballx is saying. (Yes this is throwing in my own story, sorry.) My mom was dreading my brother and I's teen years. When I was 13 or so, I remember how often she used to insist all teenagers were braindead. By the time I was 15 or 16 she'd quit doing so. I have NEVER heard her say it since. She even had other ladies at work ask her why she was the only one with perfect teenagers. All teenagers aren't the same. I'm living proof!!

[Idnew]

At 13-15 they are brain dead. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif No they especially girls are awful at that age, but then like a light switch they go back to being normal.

I certainly don't think all teens are alike. There are some very mature talking teens on this board. Some of us had it rough as a teen and had to grow up fast. I did. I'm very independant now.

Another shooting in CA yesterday at a school. I just can not understand this and as of yesterday the news couldn't give reason. Fortunatly no one was killed but one teacher and two students were wounded before the guard got the shooter.

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(ö¿ö)Too Many Freaks, Not Enough Circuses(ô¿ô)

My Home Spot (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/Doing_Whatever.htm) My Family (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/MyFamily.htm)

Originally posted by Idnew:
At 13-15 they are brain dead. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif No they especially girls are awful at that age, but then like a light switch they go back to being normal.


Except that when I protested to mom that I wasn't her answer was always "You will be."

[paulgro]

Do you know what made her stop saying it? Is it something you did or said?

------------------
"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[xV35ballx]

I think the reason we can all talk & get along here is because, for the most part, we don't know how old any of the others here are until after we've started talking to them. It's the whole judging by appearences thing that keeps our generations from talking in real life. A lot of us (myself included) judge how we think a person will be based on what they look like. We don't even always know that that's what we're doing. It took me a while to figure out that I was doing exactly what a lot of my friends were when it came to trying to find someone to talk to. And, to be quite honest, I've found that a lot of the adults I talk to make good listeners, but they don't always understand. But other teens on the other hand, DO understand. And some make good listeners. Sometimes I just wish that the adults I know could/would see things the way they appear to a teen. There have been times when, if they could, they could have really made a huge difference in my life & kept some of the things I've been through from happening. Just a thought: If it's important to the person you're talking to, try to find out why. Even if it doesn't make sense to you, don't brush it off as nothing. You could even save a life by trying to understand the importence it has to the one you're talking to & not brushing it off as nothing.

[RockBottomDLux]

Originally posted by xV35ballx:
It's the whole judging by appearences thing that keeps our generations from talking in real life. A lot of us (myself included) judge how we think a person will be based on what they look like.

OMG, that is EXACTLY what i was thinking. i know the whole bit (probably b/c this statement is 100% correct about me. i know that if you all saw me, you would have a great change in your attitude towards me. i m not saying that u WILL, but i can garentee (sp?) that someone will.
to be honest, that is what happened to me when i saw a pic of idnew and wildangel. i had no idea what to expect, and, of course, i was surprised. i was even surprised to find out that my mind HAD changed, along with my attitude. no, is hasnt changed for the worst, so it isnt bad. if i was being offensive, i am terribly sorry, and just about everyone knows i do not like to offend ppl.

Originally posted by xV35ballx:
Even if it doesn't make sense to you, don't brush it off as nothing. You could even save a life by trying to understand the importence it has to the one you're talking to & not brushing it off as nothing.

yes, that is the truth. i know, extremely well, b/c i played a part in a situation once. i will not say anything more about that, but i will make a reference. i have no clue (which helps) the name of the movie, but i can tell you what happened.
a guy (ill call him BOB) is being hunted down by another man (he'll be JOE) b/c BOB has something that JOE wants. the funny part about it is that BOB has no clue he has something that JOE wants. so, at pure random, and in an act of kindness, BOB goes to a man (MIKE) and tells MIKE that he is sorry for when he made fun of him in high school. after BOB leaves, MIKE takes him off his hit-list!

although it isnt directly realted to saving someone, a simple (I'm sorry) can change a person's attitude.

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Keep rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin'......or what ever you are doing!

[paulgro]

That old saying holds true! "Never judge a book by it's cover" !
Yuo're right Rock, it's ashame more people don't say I'm sorry when they're wrong.

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

Originally posted by paulgro:
Do you know what made her stop saying it? Is it something you did or said?


I don't think it was any one thing. I just think that once both my brother and I got into our teen years and remained good kids she saw that ALL teenagers were not braindead. Also she could see that most of our friends weren't either. Basically I think we proved her wrong so she quit saying it.

[paulgro]

I guess some adults need to stop and think before speaking aand remember their teen years.
Thanks again, if you think of anything else, we'd like to hear it if you don't mind...

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[Lis]

Whilst I do agree with what you're saying about how different generations dont usually get on like this unless they're on the net paul I must say I actually have had some really interesting nights with ppl both alot older than me and a couple of years younger than me.....the guy who painted my house is 30 and we went out to a pub together (with my older sis 21 and a friend of hers) and chatted for hours. It wasn't some sort of twisted attraction on his part either, b4 ya get dirty ideas! *grinz* He taught me how to play guitar and we talk heaps when we see each other as if we're on the complete same wavelength http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif So....it does happen if both parties are accepting of each other....and there's the problem http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

[RockBottomDLux]

i agree totally lis. there are some people who can actually know what is going on around teens. they accept it, and then act as though they are just another friend. but the others just make it a tough time for 'em. and i think that is what is the problem. ppl cant just judge a book by its cover (i like that quote paul)

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Keep rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin'......or what ever you are doing!

[Idnew]

I can honestly say I have always got along with teens except my own. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif My niece who is 17 would rather talk to me than her mother and I'm older than her mother. I guess I just remember being there and what I went through and I'm a good listener. In fact I sometimes think everybody thinks I'm a psychaitrist they way their always asking me stuff like I should know all the answers.

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(ö¿ö)Too Many Freaks, Not Enough Circuses(ô¿ô)

My Home Spot (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/Doing_Whatever.htm) My Family (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/MyFamily.htm)

I think most teens would rather talk to ANYONE besides a parent or guardian. Part of it is that we don't want to talk to someone who's going to condemn us. Teens on the whole want to make their own decisions You are a lot better off pointing out pros and cons we may not have thought of than saying don't do it.

[paulgro]

Originally posted by Lis:
Whilst I do agree with what you're saying about how different generations dont usually get on like this unless they're on the net paul I must say I actually have had some really interesting nights with ppl both alot older than me and a couple of years younger than me.....the guy who painted my house is 30 and we went out to a pub together (with my older sis 21 and a friend of hers) and chatted for hours. It wasn't some sort of twisted attraction on his part either, b4 ya get dirty ideas! *grinz* He taught me how to play guitar and we talk heaps when we see each other as if we're on the complete same wavelength http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif So....it does happen if both parties are accepting of each other....and there's the problem http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

Lis, you may have said something without knowing it. When you said "twisted attraction" Let's say in our case, if we were at a public place just talking and everyone knew I wasn't your father a lot of people would think I was trying to get you to come home with me. Maybe that's why the two generations don't get close to each other...

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[PlayCrackTheSky]

I can summ this up in a few sentinces. Dont blame games its not there fault ill take this quote "guns dont kill people people kill people" i think that proves its not games faul. Its the parents fault. They should pay attention to there kids if they did the shooters would have been medicated.

I think that sums it up

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"Ill run and hide but never tell a lie thats me in a nut shell"

[Lis]

Originally posted by paulgro:
Lis, you may have said something without knowing it. When you said "twisted attraction" Let's say in our case, if we were at a public place just talking and everyone knew I wasn't your father a lot of people would think I was trying to get you to come home with me. Maybe that's why the two generations don't get close to each other...



*nods* yeah that's pretty true, I spose I've never really thought about it....I'm lucky cos I look alot older than I am but I know if I saw that sort of thing I'd be sus so getting upset about it's pretty hypocrtitical of me, I guess as long as you know your intentions then that's all that matters, though to put that into practise is alot harder than just saying it....sucks really http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

[paulgro]

Originally posted by Duo Maxwell:
I can summ this up in a few sentinces. Dont blame games its not there fault ill take this quote "guns dont kill people people kill people" i think that proves its not games faul. Its the parents fault. They should pay attention to there kids if they did the shooters would have been medicated.

I think that sums it up



I wish it did, but it doesn't! It's not the fault of one thing, if it was this topic wouldn't be here. You're talking about the garbage you heard on TV. I want to here what you thing not what the media tells you to think...

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[paulgro]

Originally posted by Lis:
*nods* yeah that's pretty true, I spose I've never really thought about it....I'm lucky cos I look alot older than I am but I know if I saw that sort of thing I'd be sus so getting upset about it's pretty hypocrtitical of me, I guess as long as you know your intentions then that's all that matters, though to put that into practise is alot harder than just saying it....sucks really http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif



I wouldn't call you a hypocrite, you see things the way society has taught all of us to see. That includes me. We've all been taught that a man can't talk to a young girl without wanting something, yet we don't think that way when a woman is talking to a boy. What I'm saying is you're no different then anyone else. Hopefully this way of thinking will change for all of us one day...

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[RockBottomDLux]

*this thread seems to flow pretty smooth*
yes, "guns dont kill people, people kill people" is almost what i live by (the concpts, i mean) if the gun was locked away, NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN. if people would stop the insults, there would be no hit-list type people, and NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN (you know how long i could go on about this http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif )

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Keep rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin'......or what ever you are doing!

[paulgro]

In a perfect world these thing would happen, but it's not a perfect world. Lock the gun away, I break the lock! We have to teach that killing doesn't solve problems, just makes them worse. We have to learn to take to each other as equals and listen. Until that happens, nothing will change!

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[PlayCrackTheSky]

Originally posted by paulgro:
I wish it did, but it doesn't! It's not the fault of one thing, if it was this topic wouldn't be here. You're talking about the garbage you heard on TV. I want to here what you thing not what the media tells you to think...



No i am right!! I didnt hear that on t.v. thats my belife. I play violant games all the time and see bloody movies but you dont see me shooting up my school. So its obvious these kids have problems if there parents would pay attention they would be medicated and not able to kill people!!!



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"Ill run and hide but never tell a lie thats me in a nut shell"

[Idnew]

And another school shooting today. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

I don't think medicating every kid is going to solve anything. Why do these kids need meds? I don't think they do, no way could this many need meds. It looks like a cry for help but not dope them up help.

Adults are not listening to their children anymore their letting them be on their own. I know I see it and I see what they are becoming. My daughter has taken in one of her daughters friends because she doesn't like it at home. Not because she's being punished or anything. Just the opposite. My daughter pays attention to her kids and doesn't let them run the streets. I think this girl just wants some of that concern in her life. I've taken them both out riding the streets(just cruising like kids do)because their too young to drive, just to let them have some fun. They actually say they would rather go riding around with me than their own mothers.

[paulgro]

Originally posted by Duo Maxwell:
No i am right!! I didnt hear that on t.v. thats my belife. I play violant games all the time and see bloody movies but you dont see me shooting up my school. So its obvious these kids have problems if there parents would pay attention they would be medicated and not able to kill people!!!



So you say a responsible parent should turn their kid into a Zombie and everything will be ok? When do I decide it's time to start doping you up? When you talk back,try and hit me or just do it so I don't have to deal with you. Doing that solves nothing except make the drug companies richer. Sure you have a kid that's not killing people, but he isn't doing anything with his life either bbecause he's all doped up. Think about it!


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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[Lis]

I want to know why this hasn't happened in the past. I mean, surely 10, 20 , 30 years ago, when guns were more accessible (sp?) might I add, some kids were bullied, some felt like outcasts, some were neglected by their parents....why are school shootings only common now? Have we just not heard of them in the past or has something in the past decade triggered these off?

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Passing time is my favourite pass-time

[Ada_Doom]

Originally posted by Idnew:
I can honestly say I have always got along with teens except my own. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif My niece who is 17 would rather talk to me than her mother and I'm older than her mother.



There is a thing about not talking to your parents. I know I always told (and still tell) my aunt more than I tell either of my parents. When I was in a slight state last year cos my housemates were doing drugs, it was my aunt I talked to, because my parents would have gone ape, and probably been weird with my housemates every time they saw them afterwards.



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Cake or death?

[Idnew]

I want to know why this hasn't happened in the past. I mean, surely 10, 20 , 30 years ago, when guns were more accessible (sp?) might I add, some kids were bullied, some felt like outcasts, some were neglected by their parents....why are school shootings only common now? Have we just not heard of them in the past or has something in the past decade triggered these off?

I know when I was young guns were common, and not locked up. We just knew not to touch them. We also had more family get togethers and our mothers usually didn't have to work so they had more time for us. Now there is so much divorce and both parents working or one parent is trying to raise the children.

One reason for this topic was because teens know what is going on with other teens or maybe you don't. Maybe these teens aren't talking to anybody about their home problems and maybe that is the reason for some of this.

[PlayCrackTheSky]

Originally posted by paulgro:
[/b]
So you say a responsible parent should turn their kid into a Zombie and everything will be ok? When do I decide it's time to start doping you up? When you talk back,try and hit me or just do it so I don't have to deal with you. Doing that solves nothing except make the drug companies richer. Sure you have a kid that's not killing people, but he isn't doing anything with his life either bbecause he's all doped up. Think about it!


[/B][/QUOTE]

Ok there are medications (anti-depressants) that some (1) of my freinds are one and there not "doped up" hes actually very intellagent. These kids (the shooters) obviously have problems and medication can help.


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"Ill run and hide but never tell a lie thats me in a nut shell"

Originally posted by Duo Maxwell:
No i am right!! I didnt hear that on t.v. thats my belife. I play violant games all the time and see bloody movies but you dont see me shooting up my school. So its obvious these kids have problems if there parents would pay attention they would be medicated and not able to kill people!!!




I think we all agree the kids have problems. But why are there suddenly so many kids who have problems bad enough to take guns to school and start shooting? As someone else has pointed out guns are LESS accessible today than they were in our parents and grandparents time. But they didn't have school shootings. It not a good thing to be on too many drugs (even prescription ones). And while that is one solution, I, and I believe most the others in here, think that a better solution is to find what is causing all these kids to have problems and fix it so they don't have problems.

Another thing that I think has contributed to the number of school shootings is the media coverage of them.

We plaster them all over TV and the newspapers. They even tell how the kids got the guns, and found out how to make the bombs. This means that some kid who would never have thought of doing this on his own reads about it in the newspaper and decides he's going to do it. Or some kid who maybe thought about it but decided he didn't have access to guns or bombs, is now reading in the newspaper how other kids got access, and gaining access herself.

Also some might be doing it for the attention, for their 15 minutes of fame. I can't tell you why they are doing it, but I can suggest that this is why they're suddenly so popular.

[This message has been edited by CecileLeRouge (edited March 27, 2001).]

[paulgro]

Originally posted by Lis:
I want to know why this hasn't happened in the past. I mean, surely 10, 20 , 30 years ago, when guns were more accessible (sp?) might I add, some kids were bullied, some felt like outcasts, some were neglected by their parents....why are school shootings only common now? Have we just not heard of them in the past or has something in the past decade triggered these off?


The fact of the matter is, everything started going down hill in the 70's. That's when lookout for #1 started. The exact opposite of the 60's. Did we have school shootings, no and we didn't have metal detectors either. If you had a problem with another student you handled it one on one. The middle class always says the problem is Mom had to start working.....Bull....Both my parents had to work and so did my friends parents. Living in the city that was the only way you could pay your bills. We grewup fast since we were alone most of the time. We had responsibilities that kids don't have today. We also had respect for everything, which is a dying art today. I think one of the problems is us, the 40 and over group. We tried to change things so todays kids would have it easier and by doing this we've made them soft. Our nonviolent approach has made these kids more violent and there's nothing we can do about it because the laws we made won't let us! You can see on this board the kids that had to growup fast by the way they post and you can see the one's that didn't!

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[Lis]

Originally posted by paulgro:
The fact of the matter is, everything started going down hill in the 70's. That's when lookout for #1 started. The exact opposite of the 60's. Did we have school shootings, no and we didn't have metal detectors either. If you had a problem with another student you handled it one on one. The middle class always says the problem is Mom had to start working.....Bull....Both my parents had to work and so did my friends parents. Living in the city that was the only way you could pay your bills. We grewup fast since we were alone most of the time. We had responsibilities that kids don't have today. We also had respect for everything, which is a dying art today. I think one of the problems is us, the 40 and over group. We tried to change things so todays kids would have it easier and by doing this we've made them soft. Our nonviolent approach has made these kids more violent and there's nothing we can do about it because the laws we made won't let us! You can see on this board the kids that had to growup fast by the way they post and you can see the one's that didn't!



That's an interesting theory and I think it may be pretty true. Those who have it easy are inevitably going to appreciate things less and therefore demand more....if they dont get what they've assumed is rightfully theirs then they get angry and can't cope with not getting their own way so they lash out......could be one of the reasons for this....I'm not sure if it's the only one though?

[Ada_Doom]

Sorry! Nothing.

[This message has been edited by Ada_Doom (edited March 28, 2001).]

[xV35ballx]

Thank you Cecile for backing me up on that point. I believe I said something similar earlier, & it's nice to know that someone else agrees with me.
I think that another part of the problem is that there are fewer good roll models for young people today. In the past, if you wanted a roll model, you'd just look in sports & music, & find one there. But now, so many of those people are not good roll models any more. And don't get me started about the movie stars & why they aren't good roll models. But, because all of these different people that in the past could've been looked up to can't be any more, many of us are left searching for someone's example to follow.
Plus, the way we've all been forced to become tolerant (just hear me out on this one!) hasn't helped any. The fact of the matter is, if you don't like the way a person behaves, believes, etc., then you should just say so. But, because the new word of the day is tolerence, we are told to keep our opinions to ourselves, & just smile & nod. If we speak out, we're seen as cruel & intolerent. I say give me "cruel & intolerent" any day, esp. if it helps decrease the amount of violence. I'd much rather know that someone disagrees w/ me & has said so, than be shot because someone disagreed w/ me but didn't say so because they didn't want to be seen as intolerent. Then there's the political corectness issue. It's gotten to the point where you don't say someone is short. Instead, you say they are "vertically challenged." If you're going to say it, then say it & don't worry about how it's going to be taken. You can always explain what you mean. Speak the truth, and don't sugar coat it. I am so sick of people trying to make things sound better than they really are by dressing them up with fancy words.
I realize that I've probably gotten a bit off topic, or at least appear to have. But, to me, it seems to be related. For example, because of the tolerence thing, many people bottle up how they really feel in order to keep from being thought poorly of. But, they eventually can't take it any more, & instead of a simple yelling match, which might've occured had they not just bottled it all up, it all comes out, & there's a shooting spree. Am I making sense to anyone?

[Ada_Doom]

Makes sense to me. Everyone is so busy !%!%!%!%!% footing around trying not to offend anyone that nothing gets done. This attitude has also meant the end of the society where if you saw someone do something wrong, you interfered and told them what you thought. When my parents were kids, if they ever did anything wrong, it wasn't just their parents that would tell them off or give them a clip around the ear, but any passing adult. That situation wasn't perfect either, but now everyone is so afraid of trouble or a law suit that they are stuck with the "I'm alright Jack" attitude, looking after number one.

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"There's always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort...."

I agree that people bottle things up way too much. I do it myself, but I go into depression once a year or so, realize everyone hates me, cry for a couple hours and get on with my life.

On the other hand I disagree with the idea of all adults correcting behaviors they don't like. For some odd reason one of my biggest fears is a little old lady coming up to me in a store or something when I'm with my boyfriend and telling me I'm much too young to be married. Or if I have a baby cousin with me, telling me that good girls don't have sex and that I'm throwing my life away. It's never happened, but it always worries me.

[RubberDucky]

gun control, but none of you rednecks will part with your weapons so the shootings will still occur..

http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/cool.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

[PlayCrackTheSky]

Ever hear of the 2nd admendment it states "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."



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"I might run and hide but Ill never tell a lie thats me in a nut shell"

[paulgro]

This is not a thread about gun control, this is not a thread about the constitution. Don't try and turn it into one or I will start deleting posts. If you have nothing to say about the teen issue then please don't post here.

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[This message has been edited by paulgro (edited April 01, 2001).]

[RockBottomDLux]

im a teen! what kinda opinions u want? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
oh yea, one more thing, im serious too!

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Keep rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin'......or what ever you are doing!

[Idnew]

Thank you paul. We already have a gun control topic, please go there with your opinions on that subject.

Rock we want to know why these teens are suddenly shooting everybody. Your bound to have some ideas being your still in school and aren't you a little worried you have some psycho waiting to go off in it?

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(ô¿ô)You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.(ö¿ö)

My Home Spot (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/Doing_Whatever.htm)

[thud]

I think it is something to do with a nihilistic approach to life combined with needing attention – if you see death as welcoming then life isn’t going to have much meaning for you. What do you think? On the issue of doping kids up, I think that it’s done too much with everything but antidepressants: I think those are necessary on occasion. Ok, everything’s necessary on occasion, I know. Also, just to do the running naked through the woods romanticism thing, we’re too out of touch with the natural rhythms of nature/life and we’re desensitised to violence. But romanticism isn’t such a good idea either, so I don’t know. And if you’re going to have a go at me for spouting “the natural rhythms of nature/life”, I don’t mean anyone’s bowel movements. 

I think the problem with these kids is that they have weak and unstable personalities created by parents.

Some parents make sure their kids don't have real problems.
And when the kids get older and find out something isn't going the way its supposed to be they don't know what to do.
And there are parents that raise their kids the hard way, trying to make them 'hard & tough' through mental and physical 'abuse'.

Its not wrong to protect your kids or give them a hard time every once in a while but you can go over the edge

I know from my own experience that the hard way doesnt work because you make the kids think that everything they do is wrong.
My father always told me I was a loser and if I would continue behaving like a wimp I would get nowhere in life.
Everything he said started with "What would other people think..."
Now I'm afraid to go to crowded places because I have the feeling everyone is watching me.
It made me insecure and depressed.
Never thought of using violence though.
I'm very quiet and totally in control of what I do but I can imagine some kids can't take it anymore and go insane
I can understand but I don't agree with them because there are other ways.
When I'm angry or sad I just close the doors and windows and put on some music and let it all out, talking about it is another way,
but its hard to find somebody that really listens to you and helps you out.
I'm lucky enough to have a mom that can listen and help me with my problems.
Its hard for a teen to talk about problems because it shows you're not perfect and we all know how important our pride is/was
when we are/were young

Well that was pretty deep...

All I wanted to say is that the way some parents raise their kids is totally wrong.
Its starts with the parents
It's not just the parents, every little thing can add to ones madness.

I hope I made my point clear by telling something from my own experience, I couldn't think of a better way to express myself.
Feel free to ask questions

Ok I'm feeling really old now and I'm only 20 http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Lost_Soul (edited April 25, 2001).]

[~wildangel~]

I believe the parents have alot to do with it, and Lost you know you can always talk to me anytime you want to http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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"Where theres a will theres a way"


Enter into "The Blackhole...hahahahahahaha" (http://fairmayden1.homestead.com/blackhole.html)

Originally posted by ~wildangel~:
I believe the parents have alot to do with it, and Lost you know you can always talk to me anytime you want to http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif



I know
Thanx http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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The 50-50-90 rule:
Any time you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong

[paulgro]

This is why this topic was put here in the first place, so you could talk about your problems. I was raised a different way in another time as a teen I thought differently then a teen does today. This also goes for Idnew since we are pretty much the same age. Let me make one thing clear, when we say teens that doesn't mean people in their 20's shouldn't post. What ever happens in your teen years follows you into your 20's.

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[Idnew]

Thank you so much for sharing with us Lost. You will find that we are a pretty good bunch around here and love to listen and help if we can and I couldn't agree with you more. My step father was like your dad. He also told my g-daughter she was fat, she was only about 4 at the time and I sure let him know what I thought of him and also told him that I was no longer somebody he could abuse nor would I tolerate him abusing any of my children or g-children. Always putting you down and wondering what the neighbors would think. D*mn(think they have censors on every word that even resembles a cuss word) the neighbors sometime as long as we're not criminals. My life was tough and I became very independant and tried to raise mine with firmness but also with love and to this day they know they can talk to me about anything and I do mean anything and some things I wish they didn't. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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(ô¿ô)You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.(ö¿ö)

My Home Spot (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/Doing_Whatever.htm)

[This message has been edited by Idnew (edited April 26, 2001).]

[Wrighty]

I live in australia so this topic is of no real weight to me but i feel i have to throw my opinion in here. I am a teen. A few years ago i was teased persistantly. But hey, sh*t (sorry) happens. I watch violence on tv, and i play violent video games, but for some strange reason i DON'T feel the need to go out and shoot people. Why is this? Parents or older people listening? I think not. You can skirt around the issue all you want but i think the truth of the matter is that these teens doing the shootings have some severe discipline issues, or find some perverse pleasure in getting their names on tv for doing something as sick as that.
But thats just my opinion.

[paulgro]

You picked the right nick name, because right you are!!
It is of concern to you and to everyone else. It's just a matter of time and it will happen in Oz too. We never thought it would happen here....

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[Lis]

I dont know Paul.....I've been to America and have had alot of American exchange students at my school, sport teams, long term students etc. and I am fairly suprised at just how different they were to Australian teens. I know that sounds like a gross generalisation (sp?) but it seemed to me that American teens are alot more passionate and maybe excentric, I'm not sure if that best describes it.....anyway my point is that I doubt we'll see this sort of thing in oz any time soon, there's not even a lot of violence in most schools?

Good to see another Aussie finally graced us with their presence Wrighty....bout time I had someone to help me out http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

[paulgro]

Lis, I hope you're right. The only people I've met from Oz are on the net. So I can't say personally. If they are all like the people I've met on the net, then you're probably right.

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[Wrighty]

Yeah well i just had to make my point. And don't worry bout it lis, i got your back covered.

[Lis]

heheheh http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

Fear is sometimes the cause of people not talking with the younger people.
I am the mother of three Grown Children. I may have raised them in a strange way. As a parent I discovered that there is no instructions to raising a Child. I don't know if I was right or wrong in most of the things I did. Today they all seem to be doing fine. I never forbade my kids much in the way of watching television or playing video games I introduced them to one of he orginal first person shooters wolfenstein. I played with them. One of the things I did as they were growning if I saw them acting out what they saw I talked with them about it. A few times I even forbade them to watch the tv or play the games. Talking with them and sharing with them how I felt about it helped in a great way. My humble thoughts only. Alto my kids agree with me on that. I am the only parent my kids know of that still plays the games. I play not only with my children now online but the others. I am 46 years old my youngest is 21 now. I now play these games on the internet with teenagers and young people. I find it a great expericence to talk with these children most of them have a great support base to help them handle there problems. Others have no one to turn to for a problem. I have spent countless hours with some of these kids, from helping with their homework to discussing there teenage heartbreaks and mistakes. I love young people

I don't believe the shootings are caused by game or tv IMO they are caused by attention seekers who need to be seen and heard. To be Placed high on somebody's list even if it bad. To be given a status that somebody now knows what I am doing and cares. Good bad or indifferent. I may have worded this somewhat wrong I am not sure. If they have no one who feels they are important they seem to seek out a way to feel that way. I think that parents can do a lot to make the children feel that they are important in life. Even if it is only playing with on there level with the things they like. Not just what we like as adults. Altho I did grow to love these games, since I have no children at home now and still play. I see no reason on gods green earth for people to sit and tell me they did not know what was going on in the childs mind. Kids will tell you if you let them. They will even let you help them thru problems.
If this makes no sense to you let me know and I shall try to make it clearer

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To Err is Human Forgive Divine

[paulgro]

You make a lot of sense...Thanks!!

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://www.alferret.co.uk/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi)

[xV35ballx]

*stands up and claps* You've said what (I think) I've been saying all along. At least, that's what I'd been trying to say. Thank you.

[CBranski]

Thank you Minix for that post: it was indeed very clear and correct. I am the product of good parenting, and am shocked by what I see today. (Keep in mind that I'm hardly an old fogie: I'm 29.) It seems that many parents want to leave the responsibilities that my parents undertook to the schools, soccer coaches, and even the police. And when the going gets tough, many parents wash their hands of the whole affair and blame the media.

On the subject of the media, I have no idea why many people think that the plastic and glass box that sits in the living room is designed to provide their children with role models and rules of life-my parents played that role quite well and for the most part it proved to be a success.

I'm hardly going to leave the schools out of the mix here-they share some of the blame, though not as much as many believe they should. In speaking with people my age, most believe that public education failed them, and that only a certain percentage of the student body (mostly the richest and better looking) were tracked for future success. Many in my age group also are down right bitter over the whole experience, though they've gotten over it and are by and large successful and happy people.

On these fronts, I've seen little improvement but a whole lot of entropy over the eleven years I've been out of high school. We'll be a worse nation for it, that's for sure.

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"Every Man a King, But No One Wears a Crown."
"If You Can't Beat Them, Arrange to Have Them Beaten."

Originally posted by paulgro:
That old saying holds true! "Never judge a book by it's cover" !
Yuo're right Rock, it's ashame more people don't say I'm sorry when they're wrong.



Read my quote below the line; it totally describes what we're actually saying when judging people!!!!!!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



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Don't go judging others..because we are all different; it's the inside that counts!