Loyalty Oaths

I didn't realise that the loyalty oaths that goverment employees (at least in California) were asked to sign during the Red Scare are still around today. The oath reads something like "I pledge to fight to uphold the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." Does anyone know if there ever was any lawsuit against forcing employees to sign these loyalty oaths? I think that this is really scary that these are still around, especially with all of the anti-Arab feeling in the U.S. today. We seriously could have another period like the McCarthy era.

[paulgro]

Noone is forcing anyone to sign anything. If you feel you can't sign the oath then you look for a job else where. It's more a formality then anything else...

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[CBranski]

Certain Christian sects (Jehovah's Witnesses, Quakers) cannot under the tenants of their religion take oaths or even "swear" to do anything. As such, the State of Wisconsin will not force anyone to take a loyalty oath, or will phrase it in a manner like "Do you promise to tell the truth..." or "Do you affirm that will uphold the laws..."

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[cleoeo]

Great googly moogly! As a Government employee, I'd sure hate to see the fighting unit my coworkers and I would make. We can't even subdue the foriegn-made copier machine. Buncha Dilbert-types charging the enemy with letter-openers, coordinating the attack with our cell phones.

[Phreakmeister]

I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God Almighty

Wouldn't that for atheists be an invitation to lie??????????????????

Originally posted by thea:
I didn't realise that the loyalty oaths that goverment employees (at least in California) were asked to sign during the Red Scare are still around today. The oath reads something like "I pledge to fight to uphold the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." Does anyone know if there ever was any lawsuit against forcing employees to sign these loyalty oaths? I think that this is really scary that these are still around, especially with all of the anti-Arab feeling in the U.S. today. We seriously could have another period like the McCarthy era.


I'm probably way off base here, but isn't the whole point of a Constitution that our government servants are obligated to adhere to and defend it? Call me a crackpot, but not only should they be required to take an oath of loyalty, but when they break their oath, they should be tried for treason and sent to the pen for 10 or 20 years.

Unfortunately, like paulgro mentioned, it is merely a formality. Here in Kalifornistan, even the "Supreme" court wouldn't recognize the Constitution if it jumped out of their breakfast cereal and started choking them. Forget the Governor, his truckler attorney general, and the rest of the Caliban regime. They've never even seen a copy between the lot of them

[Serendipity]

Originally posted by Phreakmeister:
I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God Almighty.

Wouldn't that for atheists be an invitation to lie??????????????????

No. The reference to God Almighty would be regarded as meaningless and superfluous, but the "I swear..." part is unambiguous. Atheists are not all without a sense of personal honour! That honour is not rooted in religious faith, that's all.

[Phreakmeister]

I know that atheists have a sense of personal honour. I am one myself, so is my girlfriend, and so are a lot of my friends. And I can easily and without arrogance say that we have personal honour.

But Ser, there's a difference between getting an invitation and accepting it.
Although the 'I swear'-part is unambiguous, the 'so help me God Almighty'-part isn't.

When you swear into the US military u have the option of swearing or affirming.

Personally I believe we should just the religious tailerings that have been instuted into our [US] laws. The church has no right in law save in the regard that those who feel the need should be allowed to worship freely as long as their religion doesn't interfere with social structure.