Football

[Serendipity]

http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
I am an EXTREMELY happy bunny tonight.
I'm sorry about this, Ogb, and I offer my condolences.

Germany 1
England 5 !!!!!!! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

The match was in Munich, Germany haven't lost there since 1972. Germany haven't lost a World Cup qualifier match since God knows when.

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[ogb]

No problems with that, congratulations. Before Völler became national coach I have been supporting England as I was fed up with the way Germany played. With this team England can achieve quite a lot, especially if they manage to find a goalkeeper (Seaman already was bad ten years ago, are they waiting till he has a good match to retire him?) http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif
One question left: Germany has lost one World Cup qualifier before, it was 1984 vs. Portugal - am I God know??? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif (and in case: how much does a God earn a month? Can I buy a new Mercedes on Monday?) http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by ogb (edited September 01, 2001).]

[aclu14]

I want my VW Bug!

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[This message has been edited by aclu14 (edited September 01, 2001).]

[Serendipity]

Ogb, God can earn as much as He likes, but I doubt if even His wages could buy England 5 goals against Germany! There was some higher power than God at work here...

Yeah, I agree about Seaman, but last night he did make one excellent save at a crucial time. We have a few goalkeepers who could replace him, Sullivan for one, and perhaps David James on a good day, but there aren't many world-class English keepers. I think Kahn might have played his last game for Germany though.

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[ogb]

You are right with the Seaman save yesterday. Kahn hasn't been the worst, but it is true that he is much better when playing for Bayern Munich than in the national team. Wish it would be the other way around. But his career won't be over, he just became goalkeeper of the year - and surely not for his sympathetic outer appearance http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Serendipity]

Well, the German defence was all rubbish last night. The English defence was rubbish at first, but Sol Campbell and Rio Ferdiband are world-class defenders and soon got their affairs in order. I was worried when Germany had about 4 corners in a row... Still, no damage was done. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

Ogb, Have you seen Hargreaves play, he plays for Bayern Munich? He's yet to make a real impression in the England side - he's only played for them twice - but he looks good.

I particularly enjoyed the Liverpool content of the match last night: Owen, Heskey, Hamaan, and Gerrard, with Robbie Fowler on the bench and maybe one or two others. It makes a change from having loads of Manchester Utd players!

Sven Goran Eriksson has had a huge effect on the England team, the only game we haven't won under him was a friendly against Holland. There was a lot of people saying "We can't have a foreigner managing the England squad", but I was never in any doubt about his ability. What a man! We had the players all the time, but we didn't have a manager who could do a good job with them. Hooray for Sven!! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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[cleoeo]

5 to 1; what kind of football score is that? A fieldgoal and a safety will get you five points, but you can't get just one point unless you first score a touchdown. Must be a typo.

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Bomb Mars Now!

[ogb]

@Cleoeo: it is soccer we are talking about. A nice simple game where you just count one as every schoolboy (btw which jerk invented the tennis rules 15-30-40 instead of 1-2-3??? - never understood that). If Enland played (American) Football vs. Germany, nobody would notice over here.

@dippy: defenders are the crucial problem in the German squad. Only Nowotny has international standard, the others are way too slow (and this is just one of their negative abilities : http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif. Forwards like Owen and Heskey are poison for them.

Hargreaves had his first matches for Bayern late in the last season. He seems to be very talented, otherwise he wouldn't play in Munich at that young age. In this season so far he is best Bayern player, but this isn't too difficult until today. I just think that he should play for Canada as he was born there. Of course Germany would do the same as England and make him play for the own national squad, but small countries don't have a chance to develop if their best players are taken away to other teams.

I loved the constellation of the European Super Cup Liverpool vs. Bayern. There were two players on the ground that were born in Munich - both play for Liverpool (Hamann and Babbel)

Eriksson is a great coach. Remember the bad match at Wembley (of both teams) and compare it to Saturday. I favoured other coaches as well last year when Germany needed another coach (e.g. Cruyff), but the reactions to that would have been the same as in England.

I think we can agree on the point that both, Germany and England belong to the WC 2002. A WC without them is no real WC (as the book title says, we're "best of enemies" http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif). England now is in the better situation to make it directly, but there are still matches to be played. Germany can lose vs Finland, but also England could get problems vs Albania (very unpleasant to play) or vs Greece (German King Otto (Rehhagel) is coach there).

And if we don't do it, we can lean back as the Netherlands are also out. What a pity http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Serendipity]

I certainly agree that both England and Germany should be in the World Cup! Best of enemies it is!!!! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Funny Americans such as Cleoeo simply cannot appreciate just what a massive result this is! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

I'm looking forward to the Albania match, you're right, they can be unpleasant. I saw Albania vs. Armenia in the qualifiers for WC 1998, 1-1, but all the Albanian team play in Serie A in Italy (I think!). England beat Albania comfortably in the first round, 3-1, but we must not be complacent.

It is sad that the Netherlands are out http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif, did you know they beat England 2-1 in a friendly three weeks ago?

Can I forget the bad match at Wembley!?! Only one very good thing happened there - Keegan resigned! In the 1970's he was a fantastic striker, but is a useless coach, the only 'good' thing he has done is bring Fulham FC out of the dark, and that's only because he had Al-Fayed's money to do it with.

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[cleoeo]

What kind of sport talk is this? Here we focus on more important aspects:

* How much did the stadium cost?
* How much does the staring player make?
* Does he (she) have a lady (guy) friend?
* Has he (she) done a TV Advertisment lately?

Actual performance on the field of play is secondary. You guys are likely to ruin Pro Sports.



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Bomb Mars Now!

[ogb]

No problem, we can change topics http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

Stadiums? Funny story about a famous stadium in England. A great stadium, giant atmosphere, but they felt they might need a new one at exactly this place. So they destroyed the stadium before recognising that they don't have money for a new one. The price question for Dippy: Where is this stadium located and which was the last team to win a match in there? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif
Another funny stadium story. It is the stadium of the current Champions League winner, built for the Olympic Games in 1972. Looks quite nice and is situated in a wonderful park - but the stadium is only half roofed and this is not good in cold winters and especially not good for the atmosphere. Two clubs are playing in there and they are complaining about the situation since years. The city is willing to change it, but unfortunately the architect who built this stadium has the rights - and he doesn't want any changes. Now the city found a new site for the stadium, but the citizens have to decide if they want it (next week I guess). Question for Dippy: Which stadium are we talking about? (and if you give an answer which was the last team to win there, you'll lose all points http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif)

The staring player, girlfriends and TV advertisement? Yes, all in one person. David Beckham makes about $ 150.000 a week. He is married to an ugly woman who can't sing - alone this makes his income something like punitive damages. His latest spots were for Nike or Adidas? Don't remember.

[Serendipity]

To answer Ogb's questions, the stadium was Wembley, the last team to win there was Germany, and the German stadium is in Munich, and Ogb if I were you, any packets that arrive in the post, do the wise thing and put the in a bucket of water before opening them... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

David Beckham is indeed married to Posh Spice, and does earn a ridiculous wage, and I think it was Adidas he endorsed, but I'm not sure. He's not done much advertising since a certain incident involving an Argentinian player...

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[ogb]

Dippy, I realised that I didn't answer your second but last post. Don't make the results nicer than they were - England lost 0-2 vs the Netherlands, a team that doesn't even take part in the WC (can't mention that often enough) http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif. Some Albanians play in Seria A, but lots are just average players in lower German leagues. But concerning small nations: I think we should give a special place in the WC 2002 to the Faroe Islands, they have even won 7 points (okay, six were vs. Luxemburg, but this is a 3-2 opponent for Germany http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif). It was so funny a couple of years ago when the Faroe Islands had their first soccer victory ever: 1-0 vs. Austria (guess whose coach was immediately fired http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif).
Keegan still has a good reputation in Germany still refering from the early 80s when he played in Hamburg. But I always believed in the strengthes of the English team - in contrast to Germany there are plenty of talents. It just needed someone to make them get rid off the Kick&Rush style and especially of the slow defenders Keown and Adams (this are exactly the type of players Germany has in the defence now). As I said, to win the WC you now need a good keeper http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

Becks earns good money, but as long as someone pays it is alright. It makes no difference to the rest of the world if ManU spends the money for players or for wrapping fish&chips in it.
I remember the referee of the Argentina match in 1998 - he really kicked England out. After the Owen goal it looked pretty good, but 10 vs 12 is hard.

Concerning stadiums: did you see a picture of the new Arena "AufSchalke"? It is completely new stadium for about 60.000 spectators. You can close the roof, the lawn is kept outside to make it grow over the week - pretty amazing. For me it is the best stadium in the world meanwhile. They controlled the loudness in there and reached a top level of 122 dB after a goal - it is louder than a starting jet.

[This message has been edited by ogb (edited September 05, 2001).]

[Sjax]

I hope you dont mind if I interfere in your little football-chat, here on the day that Denmark (almost) can qualify for the WC with a win away over Bulgaria.
I totally agree that as well Germany as England belongs in any big championship.

I didnt know that it was a problem that great footballnations like the two mentioned above get players from smaller countrys like Canada.
But I know that it is a problem that players from smaller leagues (as the danish) get signed by clubs from the better leagues (Germany, England, Italy, Spain etc.) everytime they show some potential. At the time I think there is one player on the Danish national team who actually plays in Denmark, and he is very young and a reserve.
All the others play in other countries: Ebbe Sand (Schalke 04), Thomas Sørensen (Sunderland), Thomas Gravesen (somewhere in England) Martin Laursen (AC Milan), Jesper Grønkjær (Chelsea) just to mention a few.
The problem is that the danish clubs not are good enough or rich enough to atract real good players. But the reason that they arent good or rich enough are that they dont have any really good players. therefore nobody wants to see the games that they play and they dont have any income from tickets. And when noone watches the games, they the clubs cant get much money from sponsors and commercials.

Now I blame you Dippy and You ogb personally for the actions of the clubs in your countries. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[ogb]

Blame us if you want to http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif. I haven't visited a match in the German Bundesliga in the last few years, just the ones of my local football team (currently 4th league, so no danger for Danish footballers http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif; two years ago they had one called Brian Christensen, but he doesn't play anymore).
For Denmark it is a pity that the Atlantic League, which they wanted to establish a few years ago (best teams of Scandinavia, Scotland, Belgium, Netherlands, Portugal), was not permitted. I mean, you can't blame the players that they want to earn money and traditionally this can be earned in England, Italy, Spain and Germany. The main money comes form the TV stations, but as the Pay TV system doesn't really work (except in England I guess), all the other countries will have to lower their expenses. Either the players accept or it will come to a big crash, especially in Italy and Spain (but this would be another chance for Denmark as I then predict that they'll create a Euro-League)

[Serendipity]

I agree, Sjax, it's a shame that football has become big business. As a Spurs fan, I love our keeper, Baardsden (hope I spelled that right! My QWERTY keyboard doesn't allow easy access to those Scandinavian diphthongs and 'O' with a line thought it! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif). Some kiund of superleague for not-so-rich-in-a-football-sense nations seems inevitable, somehow, particularly if TV gets behind it. That's the only reason football is so rich here, Sky TV. They are responsible for the Premiership's existence, in liaison with the FA of course. On the other hand, I like the international flavour of UK football, in the England/Wales and Scotland. Chelsea have once or twice fielded a squad with no British players at all.

But all that is beside the point. Hargreaves could have played for Canada, Wales (I think) Germany, or England. He chose England. Michael Owen, likewise, could have played for Wales or England. He cjose England.

But all that is beside the point...

ENGLAND 2
ALBANIA 0

http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

England are now at the top of their group, level with Germany on points but well ahead on goal difference. Oh I like this!!

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[cleoeo]

Ah! Stadium disputes. Big time revenue markets ruining the competetiveness of smaller teams. Overpaid stars marrying overhyped bimbos. "Local" teams with no local players. Now you're talking sports! Soon the TV ads get so important that in order to accomodate them it takes 4 1/2 hours to play a game. Look out soccer fans, we Americans KNOW how to compete in a market-driven world like that.

[ogb]

@dippy: I partially saw the England match yesterday. Still wonder why they didn't have a 3-0 lead after ten minutes. I also watched Finland vs Greece and have to say: dippy, congratulations for the direct qualification. If Finland didn't have to fight with laughter in the second half, it could have been 10-1. England will beat Greece and even if not I do doubt that Germany beats Finland (really impressive first half yesterday, but did it have to be this result - 5:1 ??? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif).

Where to go on? You are right concerning Hargreaves. He was born and grew up in Canada, his parents are from England and Wales.

Is it right that Sky TV doesn't have problems with the finances? Here the pay TV station "forced" (the pay TV owner also owns the free TV channel) the free TV to start the summary at 8.15 p.m. - the TV ratings dropped dramatically. Nobody is interested in watching the Saturday afternoon matches that late. This weekend the show starts at 7 p.m. - let's wait if this works.


@cleoeo: the structure here is different than in the US (which sometimes is a pity as I like the NHL). Here we have a system with promotion and relegation that cares for always having different teams in the leagues. On the other hand I miss a salary cap that guarantees an equal league. It are always the same teams that dominate - very boring (in Germany Bayern Munich became 18 times champion in 38 Bundesliga seasons; the last sympathetic team to win the title was Werder Bremen in 1993).
But as the matches are played 2x45 minutes without stopping the time when the ball is not in the match, there is no danger that a match might last several hours. However also there I'd prefer a change in 2x30 minutes net time as there wouldn't be situations in the last season when Bayern Munich became champion in the 5th minute of injury time in the last match (and nobody knew why the referee didn't stop the match before). Additionally I am a playoff fan http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif, the season only consists of league matches

[Serendipity]

Thanks, Ogb, yeah, I don't doubt that England will beat Greece (thoughy I take nothing for granted), and Germany have the tougher game against Finland. Albania, as we knew all along, are a difficult side. It's no surprise we beat them, but they defended deep and knew who to target. David Beckham may not be the brightest intellect English football has ever known, but he worked very hard. Ah http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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[~wildangel~]

notice I avoid anything that has to do with sports?
Well I figured i'd pop in and say congrats Dippy, for you know....whatever makes you a happy bunny! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[ogb]

Also congratulations to Sjax and Denmark for at least having a secure playoff rank. I wasn't very sure that they would make it in Bulgaria. It is a tough group they have with additionally Czech Republic and Iceland in it.

Dippy, as a Spurs fan you must be in favour of Germany!!! The most important team member is German: the Holsten brewery, sponsor since 1983 !!! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif Furthermore you got brilliant technician Steffen Freund (okay, rather an axe than anything else) and Christian 'Clerasil' Ziege.

[Serendipity]

... not to mention the thanks we owe to Jurgen 'Oh, did I dive? Never mind as long as I got a penalty' Klinsmannnn. I can't stand him but when Spurs were facing relegation a few seasons ago, he came to the rescue. 4 goals in one match as I recall http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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[ogb]

Oh yes, good old 'Schwabenschwuchtel' and 'Warmduscher' Jürgen Klinsmann (ask Ada for translations when she is back http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif), I almost forgot him. Nobody knows how he scored, but somehow he did - and this although he was lying on the ground for about 90% of the match http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Hamburglar]

Hey ogb do you know what blitzkreig means???

http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Serendipity]

Now, everyone knows what that means, Hammy, and it ain't nice, even when England does it 5-1 to Germany! Over here in Europe we don't know what 'a fieldgoal' or 'a safety' mean, and to tell the truth, we don't want to know. American Footbal is just some namby-pamby game played by these guys all dressed up in helmets and pads cuz they're afraid of hurtin' their poor li'l selves! Honestly, give these teams a good game of Rugby, they wouldn't know what hit 'em!! But one thing's for sure: there ain't no safety on a Rugby field! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[cleoeo]

American football is a great game for watching on TV with a group of other people. Here's the secret: the ball is in play for 15 minutes out of a 4 hour game. You all watch the opening kickoff, very exciting. Elapsed time: 35 seconds. Go get a beer, some chips, and take a pee. Elapsed time: 4 minutes. Watch the first play from scrimmage, an incomplete pass, very exciting. Elapsed time: 15 seconds. Go make a sandwich, flirt with someone else's spouse, change the oil in your car. Time for the second play from scrimmage! Very exciting. Makes for a very sociable afternoon.

[ogb]

I have been watching the last few Super Bowl matches (as a student I am least free to stay awake all night http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif). It is one match a year that is bearable, but as well as baseball it is not enough action and too many interruptions. Don't see what is so exciting about it (but dippy, I at least know what a fieldgoal is http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif - and rugby also is ridiculous!!!). Soccer is also fun watching it with a couple of other guys. Especially at a World Cup when there are three matches on a run http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif. Unfortunately the WC 2002 is for the first time on pay TV - only 25 matches are in free TV. And maybe a new dumb law for you: there is a law that declares that soccer matches of the German national team are a product for the public and therefore have to be shown in Free TV.

[Serendipity]

Hm. I seriously underestimated the power of American Football. When watching a boring old Soccer match, at the kickoff the referee blows the whistle. Then the game is played for 45 minutes without a break, excepting injuries and set play pieces - Corner kicks, Penalties, etc. There is a 15 minute pause at half-time, grab some more beer, make a sandwich, have a pee, flirt with someone else's spouse, etc. Then the Second Half starts and you get another 45 minutes of play. During play all you can do is say things like "Their defence is rubbish!", "Gorgeous pass, Beckham!", and of course you shoot both arms in the air and shout "YESSSSS!" when your side scores a goal. Not much chance of any social life compared to Am. Foot.

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[aclu14]

Wait(I'm American) do you mean football football or soccer?

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[ogb]

We're talking about football football, but this is not American football http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif (yes, we are talking about soccer).
Dippy, I am shocked about the way you are watching soccer. Isn't there time for saying good old "Hey wife, bring me another beer and some chips!!!" http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif (okay, I admit that I am single; do you have a clue why? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif).



[This message has been edited by ogb (edited September 09, 2001).]

[Serendipity]

Well, I'm single too, but it's because I'm the kind of man who throws both arms in the air and shouts "YESSSS!!!!" when my side scores a goal. Women don't understand this behaviour. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Aclu, as Ogb says, we're talking football football, not that strange American variation. Sure, the two games have things in common: both played on a pitch, two teams, high prices and wages for players, but apart from this, Soccer (Association Football) is a truly superior sport. Just about every country in the world, apart from the US, recognises this. Wake up, USA!!
(It's coming home, it's coming home..... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif)

The Daily Mirror (a dreadful UK tabloid paper) strongly advised people to sell everything they could to place on a bet for a draw!! How wrong could he be?? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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[ogb]

Oh come on, who doesn't react like that. What is a match without emotions (okay, I remember a match one week ago where Germany sat in front of the TV unable to show any reaction http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif)? But really, there are more and more women in the stadiums meanwhile, so I don't believe that many can't understand it anymore.

[Serendipity]

Don't be too sure about that, Ogb - it might be men dressed up as women. Not because they're tranvestites, but to try to encourage women to get involved. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Actually, I agree, women do like the game more and more, and some of them even understand the rules, and aren't just interested in the legs... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

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[aclu14]

Being a female, I dont understand you guys. Naturally . . . hey, let's get Idnew in theis conversation!

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[ogb]

Originally posted by Serendipity:
Don't be too sure about that, Ogb - it might be men dressed up as women. Not because they're tranvestites, but to try to encourage women to get involved. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif



Don't make me spit my breakfast to the next corner http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif. No, actually there are some very, very beautiful ones (okay, it's not the majority http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif). And you won't believe it, I once dated the sister of a professional player - and she knew the rules http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif, but most of them really are like "oh my god, while preparing for the match, he stretched and his incredible butt was only a few meters away".

[Serendipity]

Two more results:

Germany 0 Finland 0

England 2 Greece 2

This means that England automatically qualify for the World Cup Finals.

My status as happy bunny is maintained and consolidated.

http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[Sjax]

WE ARE RED, WE ARE WHITE, WE ARE DANISH DYNAMITE!!!!

Sorry about the shouting but I had to cry out my joy.

Denmark 6 Iceland 0
That means that Denmark also qualify automatically. I too am a happy bunny.

By the way, congratulations Serindipity, we will see you in Japan and South Korea, and im sorry about Germany ogb, although I would be very surprised if you dont win your playoffs.

And let me repeat: Denmark 6 Iceland 0.

[Serendipity]

Congratulations, Sjax! See you in S.Korea/Japan! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

6-0? That's a brilliant score! Although I wouldn't expect too much from Iceland. Lovely country, but not very big... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

I now indeed hope that Germany qualify. They have to play Ukraine, best of two matches.

The England game today was so close!! Greece were 1-0 up for most of the game, then in the 67th(?) minute Teddy Sherringham (A Spurs man!! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif) equalised, only for Greece to score again a minute later. Then Beckham scored (brilliantly!!!!! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) from a free kick in injury time.... such a close call!

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[PlayCrackTheSky]

Is this American football u know NFL type football or football like what we call " soccer "

[Sjax]

Duo Maxwell: We are talking about soccer, without comparison the most popular sport in every european country (I think).
Serindipity: I didnt think much of Iceland either untill I heard that they won in Czech Republic. That was a bit impressive, but they werent any good yesterday.

You are lucky to have a man like Beckham I think. Correct me if Im wwrong but I dont think that was his first important goal for England.
We had our own Beckham yesterday when Thomas Gravesen (from Everton) scored from an excellent free kick in a distance of 30 - 35 meters.

I dont remember the danish team ever been so good as they are now, even when they became european champions in 1992 (an event we will never forget)
Just like you have got an excellent coach in Sven Goran Erikson, we have got two excellent coaches in Morten Olsen and Michael Laudrup who hass not yet been defeated wit the national team.

Soccer is a lovely sport, isnt it?

[~wildangel~]

MEN http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

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[ogb]

Originally posted by Sjax:

Serindipity: I didnt think much of Iceland either untill I heard that they won in Czech Republic. That was a bit impressive, but they werent any good yesterday.

You are lucky to have a man like Beckham I think. Correct me if Im wrong but I dont think that was his first important goal for England.
We had our own Beckham yesterday when Thomas Gravesen (from Everton) scored from an excellent free kick in a distance of 30 - 35 meters.

Soccer is a lovely sport, isnt it?

It indeed is. Congratulations on both of you, but Dippy, come on, celebrating a 2-2 vs Greece? Even Germany won both matches against them http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif. And I don't want to start a war, but the free kick leading to the equaliser was quite ridiculous. However, Germany didn't manage to win Finland and so they don't deserve to go to Japan/South Korea as group winner. At least they had good results against the east european teams in the past, which gives hope to beat Ukraine.

Iceland and also Finland are really not that bad. Iceland had some good scores and Finland will surely qualify for a tournament within the next 10 years (although they were also very bad in Germany).

Both freekicks were great. Beckhams was probably more difficult as he had some bad tries before and knew that this was the last chance to score.

[Serendipity]

Hi OGB http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif Welcome back!

Well, I wasn't celebrating the draw against Greece so much as England qualifying automatically, and avoiding the play-offs.

Yes, Sjax, we are lucky to have Beckham, he has matured since France '98, when his petulance ensured England didn't progress past the second round.

The 2-2 draw against Greece did highlight the importance of one player: Micheal Owen. If he had played, I wonder what the score would have been? I'm also very pleased that the first equaliser was scored by Teddy Sherringham, who has recently left Manchester United to rejoin Tottenham Hotspur, who I support! He was brought on as a substitute and scored within 10 seconds, I think. A record time! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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[ogb]

Does it mean that you - as a Hotspurs supporter - would have celebrated if Christian Ziege had scored the match winning goal vs. Finland? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Serendipity]

Erm - no. I support Spurs and England. I was more than grateful that David Ginola stayed off the pitch during France '98!! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

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[Sjax]

Just wanted to update the results from today, which should be easy:

Ukraine - Germany 1-1
England - Sweden 1-1
Denmark - Netherlands 1-1

Well ogb and Serendipity, who should be most pleased with this? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

Btw Serendipity, that was never a penalty.
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[This message has been edited by Sjax (edited November 10, 2001).]

[ogb]

After the first bad 15 minutes, it was finally quite a good match by the German national team. The chances to qualify improved a lot. My favourite result today was Ireland - Iran 2-0

[Idnew]

MEN http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Ok I don't really keep up with football, soccer or anything else that involves sports that much, but once in awhile.......

Florida's too biggest college teams pair off once again next week the Florida Gators *yeah, yippee, Go Gators* and the Seminoles *boo, boo, boo*. It's always the most exciting time when those two teams butt heads especially since we usually have a good friend or mate that is on the opposite team. My business partner is a Seminole and I'm a Gator. She drives a green truck with an ugly http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif Seminole tag on the front and I drive a green truck with a beautiful Gator tag on front http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif and so it's funny when we're both parked at the business with our truck tags staring at everybody when the go out the door. They beat us last year, hope we can crow this year.

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[Serendipity]

I agree, Sjax, that wasn't a penalty. Still, I'm not complaining! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif It was just a friendly match (cuz Sweden and England have qualified for the World Cup, *ner ner ner nerrrr ner* http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ) and quite a few players showed what they can do. I'm looking forward to it.

On a slightly diferent note, I saw a chat show tonight with Frank Skinner (who sings on the "Three Lions on a Shirt (It's Coming Home)" record) interviewing Paul 'Gazza' Gascoigne. Gazza's is arguably the saddest story in English football: A HUGE talent (he played for Spurs...), he became an alcoholic with a serious attitude problem. Now 34, he was saying that he hoped he may yet get another chance to play for England. Sad to say, he doesn't have a hope. Do you remember that goal he scored in Euro '96?? Absolutely stunning. Against Scotland, too http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif.

Ogb, do you think that the score should have been 2-1 to Germany? Of course, it would be a very difficult decision, and when there is doubt then the defending side should have the benefit... still, an away goal is useful, I'll bet Voller fields a defensive side at the return match.

Idnew, best of luck with the Gators http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif I was in Bosnia one time, we had a video of a recent Spurs vs Newcastle match. Our Convoy Leader put on his Spurs shirt, one of the drivers put on his Newcastle shirt...

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[ogb]

Originally posted by Serendipity:

Ogb, do you think that the score should have been 2-1 to Germany? Of course, it would be a very difficult decision, and when there is doubt then the defending side should have the benefit... still, an away goal is useful, I'll bet Voller fields a defensive side at the return match.


Luckily the next match is on Wednesday, otherwise we'd have this discussion over months on all TV stations. My opinion: no slowmotion proved that the ball was in - and even if someone found out after hours, how could you expect the referee to recognise it within seconds? I am supporter of the video proof, only a camera in the bar could have solved this situation. The second aspect is: a match changes with the score. It is not as easy as to say 'the score would have been 2-1 if the referee had decided on goal'. Probably Germany had strengthened the defence earlier in this case and the score would have been 1-1 anyway. But all this is theoretical, the score is 1-1 and it's not too bad. On Wednesday I also expect them to be defensive.


[This message has been edited by ogb (edited November 11, 2001).]

[ogb]

Originally posted by Idnew:
My business partner is a Seminole and I'm a Gator. She drives a green truck with an ugly http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif Seminole tag on the front and I drive a green truck with a beautiful Gator tag on front http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif and so it's funny when we're both parked at the business with our truck tags staring at everybody when the go out the door. They beat us last year, hope we can crow this year.


I wonder how peaceful your rivalry is. I have a button on my car declaring me as a member of FC Gütersloh, our local soccer team. Whenever I drove to our neighbour city, someone tried to scratch it off. We were much nicer: a friend came up with a girlfriend from this city and she had a button of their team on her car. We simply glued our button over it.

[This message has been edited by ogb (edited November 13, 2001).]

[ogb]

GERMANY 4
UKRAINE 1

What a match! I couldn't believe that the ones in white were Germany!!! It was probably the best match of a German national team since the round of the last 16 at the 1990 WC vs the Netherlands. The fans were singing "Without Holland we're driving to Japan"

[Sjax]

Congratulations ogb, I was very pleased to hear that Germany qualified, although I never really doubted you would.
Welcome in the good company... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Serendipity]

Congrats, Ogb http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif I watched most of the match - until it was clear that Germany would win. But do you not feel that part of the cause of the result was that Ukraine played very badly? ( http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif )

Interesting to see Ziege playing against Rebrov! And Luzhny was there too: Spurs play Arsenal this weekend... It'll be a hot day for Sol Campbell! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[ogb]

Surely Ukraine was weak, but after the first quarter hour of really strong German play, the match was decided. An easteuropean team usually doesn't recover from a 0-3.

Dippy, do me a favor and explain the London rivalries. Here everyone hates everyone that is coming from the same region, but there are max. two teams of one city in the Bundesliga. In contrast to that the Premier League has quite a lot teams from London. How does it work with the rivalries?

[Serendipity]

OK... In London there are a lot of teams: Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Fulham, West Ham, etc. Of these, Spurs and Arsenal hate each other the most, IMNSHO http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif On match days you can buy T-shirts outside Highbury (Arsenal's tiny stadium) that read "Stand Up if You Hate Tottenham". It goes back a long time, a lot of football rivalries are based on religious differences. I'm not sure about Arsenal, they may be Catholic or more likely protestant, but Spurs is viewed as a Jewish team. Other cities: In Liverpool there are two Premiership sides, Liverpool and Everton. Liverpool are Protestant, Everton Catholic. In Glasgow there are two major teams, Celtic (Catholic) and Rangers (Protestant).
These days the religious differences have been put aside, as football has become a business more than a social activity, but the animosity remains.

All these teams hate each other, especially if the other team is good. In Manchester, nobody (well, not many) supports Manchester United, they support Manchester City, who are not very good... so United fans don't feel challenged by City. I'm not sure about the North-East, which has three main teams, Newcastle, Sunderland, and Middlesborough (who have been underperforming lately). They probably all hate each other too!

Of course, there are some sensible fans too. For example, I don't hate Arsenal. I just want them to lose all their matches!

[Idnew]

Oh we're friendly rivals Ogb. We don't get all into banging heads like you men do http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif Hoo Hoo two more days and the car flags will be flying all over.

I'm so proud ya'll started this topic to have a place to talk about ya'll's first loves. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

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[ogb]

Originally posted by Serendipity:

All these teams hate each other, especially if the other team is good. In Manchester, nobody (well, not many) supports Manchester United, they support Manchester City, who are not very good... so United fans don't feel challenged by City. I'm not sure about the North-East, which has three main teams, Newcastle, Sunderland, and Middlesborough (who have been underperforming lately). They probably all hate each other too!



So Fulham, West Ham etc. don't have rivalries with the other teams? Our no.1 hate duel in Germany is Dortmund vs Schalke. Two not very beauiful cities in a worker region that are situated in about 10 km distance. Then of course the city duels: Bayern and 1860 Munich, Hamburg and St. Pauli. Another hot derby is this weekend - Cologne and Leverkusen (I support them), they are also about 15 km distanced and seperated by the Rhine. As I don't live there, I don't feel this hatred, I focus on others http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif. There are plenty of other hate duels due to happenings in the past. And to make it as simple as that: everyone hates Bayern.

The ManU phenomenon can be found in Munich as well. The citizens of Munich usually are 1860 fans (but as the city isn't very enthusiastic about sports, they don't have too many supporters). The Bayern fans are the ones living in Bavaria's rural areas and the simple success fans who just love the team that is best.

Idnew, I have to correct you. This is no topic about our first love - this is a topic about our real love http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[~wildangel~]

...and we all know that's the TV http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

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[Idnew]

God forbid if they lose the remote and have to move away from their snacks and beer. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[ogb]

Sorry to correct you, but any sports event is better live in the stadium than on TV. Beer and snacks just to special occasions (like last Wednesday http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif). The best indeed is to watch a soccer WC in a group of ten with own draft beer. In 1998 we watched it in our boss' private room (she was on a conference) and beer dropped on her carpet. When she recognised, we blamed her cat for it http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif.

[Serendipity]

I watched WC '98 in a downmarket pub with a video projector (i.e. huge screen http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif), beer (not much beer, I was driving) and food to hand, with a few good friends. Ahh, it's these simple pleasures that make it all worthwhile http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

Today the newspapers are all full of reports predicting the atmosphere at today's match, Spurs Vs Arsenal. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/mad.gif COME ON YOU SPURS!!! Sol Campbell is the centre (-back) of attention...

For anyone who hasn't got this yet, Sol Campbell is one of the best defenders in the world. He used to play for Spurs. This summer he left and joined archrivals Arsenal (the two teams are both based in North London, about 5 miles apart). I don't mind this defection so much, Spurs have had one of their best seasons for years, but a lot of Spurs fans are furious about it; people have been burning effigies of Campbell... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/eek.gif

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[ogb]

Another question for you, dippy: is the pay TV system really working in England? I mean, they are still trying it here, but they are making tremendous losses. Last year the fans made kind of a boycot as the pay TV determined to be a Friday evening match, 2 Sunday evening matches, one Saturday evening match and five regularly on Saturday afternoon. They had to react and now 7 matches are back on Sat 3.30 p.m. and two on Sunday 5.30 p.m. - but the matches in England are even at worse times (the forces channel here always shows the match on Sunday midday). And the match summaries in England are late in the evening - here they tried to show them at 8.15 p.m. and the TV ratings were horrible so that they were forced to go back to at least 7 p.m.

But I am happy meanwhile. Bayer (Leverkusen) won their derby 2-1 and Bayern lost, which means that Bayer is now on top of the league. After 13 matches they haven't even lost a single match.

[Serendipity]

Hmm. I think I've got this right, but I don't subscribe to any TV channels other than the 5 terrestrial ones (and I can't get a good picture for Channel 5... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif ).

Sky TV had exclusive broadcast rights to Premiership matches for a long time, but now ITV Digital has these rights. Sky TV, having the backup of Rupert Murdoch and his billions, made it into a profitable business, but ITV Digital is running into financial problems - quite how I don't know, I had thought of having football broadcast rights as a license to print money, what with revenue from subscribers and advertisers. The cost of buying the right to broadcast is huge. Most of the important international matches (WC, Champion's League, UEFA Cup, and international friendly matches) are on terrestrial TV, and so are free.

As for match summary programs, this is a subject of debate at the moment. Des Lynham used to be the BBC's anchorman, now he's defected to ITV, and has an awful Saturday night show called The Premiership. Meanwhile at the BBC, they recently lost the right to broadcast match summaries, so their anchorman, Gary Lineker (ex-England player and SPURS man!!! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ) now only works when there's an international match (am I boring you? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ). So the BBC's excellent match summary program, Match of the Day, has been shelved http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif .

To summarise: Pay-to-view football coverage is not working at the moment, but it might just need time.

Spurs 1, Arsenal 1. Hmm. If we had won we would have gone above Arsenal in the league, so I'm not too happy with this. At the final whistle Spurs players made a point of being nice to Sol Campbell, who played neither well nor badly.

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[ogb]

Didn't know that MOTD with Gary Lineker (remember his unfortunately outdated sentence "football is a match where 11 play vs 11 over 90 minutes and at the end Germany wins"?) has been shelved. I sometimes watched it on SSVC (without sound as we don't have a decoder, which is very bad as they have an excellent programme), but it is very seldom that I am home at this time.
I have been to a local match this afternoon (4th league) and am still depressed. Goal against after 3 minutes and then 87 minutes of pressure without success.

[Idnew]

Oh yeah we got some sick Seminoles. Woo woo

Gators win 37-13 http://www.gatorzone.com/images/main/headgator.gif

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[~wildangel~]

thats a cute gator Id...I dont know a thing about sports though! My husband likes GOLF! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif I tell him if he's not carefull he'll be wearing goofy plaid pants and grow a fat ass to match em! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Have you seen the movie Happy Gilmore? That's the movie he watched WAYY too many times http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif


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[ogb]

Really nice gator.
I feel very sorry for you, wild. Besides that golf isn't really what I call sport although it at least has a ball. If he likes golf, how did you get pregnant? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif Happy Gilmore is a great trash movie.

[Serendipity]

Slightly different sport: RUGBY! England vs Romania... Romania 0, England....136 (or something like that) http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif Boy, Americans would love this sport!! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Serendipity]

Hmm. A sad night in Liverpool yesterday... Liverpool 1 Barcelona 3.

Man Utd did well against Bayern, though http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

Slightly different story: Top UK footballers have been ordered to go on strike at all televised matches on (a date in December, the media keeps changing it. The 1st, I think). This is because the Professional Footballers Association (PFA), which is the soccer players trade union, feels it is not getting enough money out of the new TV deal that the Premiership has negotiated. I'll explain the details when I have them a little clearer in my head! No European matches will be affected.

[ogb]

Oh yes, the poor associations aren't earning enough. I am nobody who complains about the sums being offered, but it is quite impudent to demand more - no matter what side it comes from.
I would have been luckier if ManU had kept the 1-0, but their defence is really weak this year. Juventus - Leverkusen today was postponed because of fog.

[Sjax]

Originally posted by Serendipity:
This is because the Professional Footballers Association (PFA), which is the soccer players trade union, feels it is not getting enough money out of the new TV deal that the Premiership has negotiated.

I understand their anger. How are you supposed to make a living on 100 000 dollars a month.
Poor people...

[Serendipity]

Sjax, I think the cash is more for the players who retire from the game aged 35 or so, then need training for some other kind of work. The super-rich players are in the minority, but they're doing this for the players who are not so rich. I'm semi-sympathetic.

[ogb]

Oh these poor guys. Every player who spent his career in the 2nd league and is no millionaire, had a wrong advisor.

[Serendipity]

OK, here's an explanation from the Guardian's website:

The footballers' strike explained

Sean Ingle
Wednesday November 21, 2001

1. What is the football strike about?
As usual with these things, it boils down to money. The Professional Footballers' Association (PFA), wants 5% of the new £1.65bn Premier League TV deal, which amounts to £35m a year. The PFA claims it needs the money for welfare and retraining schemes for disadvantaged and former players. Those that run the game argue that handing £35m a year to a union is too much.

2. So what's the latest?

Last night negotiations between the two sides broke down, again. The PFA lowered their demands to £27m a year on the condition they could negotiate a longer-term agreement - however the Premier League's final offer was for £50m over three years, with the PFA only having total discretion in the spending of £7m of the money. Neither offer was acceptable to the other side and the Premier League are seething that PFA chief executive Gordon Taylor apparently dispatched strike notices while negotiations were still proceeding.

3. So which matches will be affected?

All matches in the top four divisions over the weekend of December 1 and 2 will be cancelled unless television cameras are banned from the grounds. Manchester United will be involved in the first match affected by any strike, with their match against Chelsea due to kick off at midday on December 1.


4. How are the PFA justifying their action?

Gordon Taylor insists that the union has no choice but to strike because they need the additional money to support their members. "We need to protect the future of the PFA, indeed the meaningful existence of the PFA," he says. It's worth pointing out that the PFA has the support of his members - earlier this month more than 99 percent of the 2,312 professional players voted in favour of industrial action in a PFA ballot.

5. But aren't footballers swimming in money?

That's the argument of the Premier League, Football League and league chairman, who claim that players already benefit from the increased television revenue through huge salary increases in recent years and suggest that the PFA could increase its revenues by increasing it's membership fees. As Doug Ellis puts it: "The players themselves pay £75 a year - £1.50 a week - to be a member of the PFA. Lots of these players are earning £1m a year - £20,000 a week - it is ridiculous." One suggestion that has been made is that, rather than a flat fee, players should pay a percentage of their wages to the PFA. This has not been accepted by the PFA.

6. So what will happen next?

Premier League chief executive Richard Scudamore says the planned strike is "unthinkable" - and the bosses will now seek a legal injunction to prevent the strike.

7. What if the injunction fails?

According to Ellis: "If the injunction fails - and I don't expect it to - then we will see them in court and if they lose then that will be to the players' detriment. They will suffer heavily." Ellis went on to warn that "if the players go on strike they can expect not to receive their wages because they are breaching their contract and, under league regulations, they can be fined for refusing to play in front of TV cameras."

8. Strong stuff...how have the PFA reacted to that?

Taylor has accused the Premier League of attempting to "rid the game" of the PFA because the union represents "the one check and balance" left in football. "We are dealing in reality," he insists. "They've dealt in propaganda." Taylor has also claimed the footballers are the injured party in the dispute, adding: "In total the three footballing bodies are receiving £2,160m over three years. We want a better redistribution. There's too much money going to the top level and there's not enough going down."

9. Which is no doubt dismissed as rubbish by the bosses...

Exactly. Birmingham chairman David Gold speaks for many chairman when he says: "Tell me one business in this entire universe which gives £25m to support a union? I find that absolutely extraordinary. At the other end of the scale in the Third Division people earn thirty, forty, fifty thousand pounds a year. They don't need help from the union - when their career finishes they should just go out and get a proper job. Gordon Taylor is empire building - there's no reason why they need more money. We have to stand up to this bully."

10. With all these harsh words from both sides, what's the chance of a deal?

The smart money is still on a compromise to be reached as no one in football really wants to see a long-term strike. Ask yourself who will gain from it? Not television companies like Sky, who will have blank weekends and angry subscribers to contend with; not Barclaycard, who have paid £48m to sponsor the Premiership - and certainly not the Premier League, who will come under pressure from TV companies and their sponsors to return football to our screens.

It's difficult to believe the public will keep supporting the PFA and footballers earning £50,000-a-week if the dispute drags out too. Ergo, expect a compromise to be reached sooner rather than later.

[Serendipity]

And my congratulations to Ipswich Town FC, who beat Inter Milan 1-0 tonight in the UEFA Cup. Ipswich were a big side when I was very young, since then they've not been doing so well, but they reached the Premiership two seasons ago. At the moment they're second from bottom of the Premiership (with some tough games coming soon), but Inter Milan are second from TOP in Serie A. Good luck in the return match! (((you'll need it...))) http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Sjax]

The best danish club, Brøndby IF, played agianst Parma yesterday. The match was played in Parma and the result was 1-1, which I think is quite good.
Brøndby has earlier beaten clubs like Liverpool and Bayern München out of the UEFA-Cup.

Another danish club FC København (Copenhagen) lost 0-1 to Dortmund.

By the way ogb. Is it true that Bayern München has bought Sebastian Deisler from Hertha Berlin. Ive heard it as a rumour, and I think it is a pity if its true.

[ogb]

I watched Kopenhagen vs Dortmund. What did they do with the lawn? Couldn't they have scored the penalty and won vs this ugly yellow/black team?
Deisler leaves to Bayern Munich after this season. It was a little scandal as a bank employee sold the information to the yellow press that Deisler had a 20 mio bank transfer by Bayern. According to the statutes, it was strictly forbidden for Bayern to contact him before the end of the year, but the Football Assocation is quite generous to them and is looking over it.
Bayern also wants to have big talents Michael Ballack from Leverkusen (who probably goes there) and Sebastian Kehl from Freiburg (who probaby leaves, but maybe to another team). With them buying the German talents from other teams, Bayern coach Hitzfeld made the glorious suggestion that 9 of the 18 players who are nominated for a match must be German.

[~wildangel~]

LOL@Olaf!

It's strange cause yes...he likes golf...he looks ridicuolous playing golf cause he looks like....well he doesnt look like a golfer! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif and he cant hit the ball in the hole!

He actually likes the strongest man competitions the best though and have you guys ever heard of Ultimate fighting?
That's our absolute favorite!
Ultimate fighting is real fighting, he wants to sign up one of these days! He's crazy!


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~Wild, the angel of the Mod Squad~
Friendship is heavenly
My kids adorable faces! (http://fairmayden1.homestead.com/babyface.html)~The MOD Squad~ (http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/serendipity/MSPoster/ModSquad.html)

[ogb]

Wrestling, ultimate fighting etc. is also sports without a ball - that's rubbish. The only interesting fights are those in a hockey match http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif.

Real sports: Yesterday Juventus vs Bayer was postponed for a second time because of fog (has never been before in UEFA history that an international match has to be postponed twice). UEFA instructed both teams under heavy protests that they have to play this afternoon - that's really a farce. Bayer didn't have a hotel for the night (the one they had before was booked by someone else) and now they had to find a new one 80km away. After this match, they'll have to fly home and tomorrow there is the next flight to Bremen to play a regular season match on Saturday afternoon - no 48 hours after the last one. Very unlucky as Bayer is having an excellent run with a league starting record after 14 matches and already 4 pts ahead of Bayern Munich.

[Sjax]

I agree that any rreal sport include a ball...

The worst thing about postponed games is that it cost the clubs a lot of money. I am sure that its not a problem for clubs like Bayer Leverkusen, but when the matches of the 12th of september was postponed because of the terror attacks in USA, it was a economic disaster for some danish clubs. The planes and the hotels was already booked.

Leverkusen might do better than Bayern München in the Bundesliga, but Batern just won the world championsship for clubs.

My peersonal favourite in the Bundesliga is Hertha Berlin. I dont really know why, I just like them.

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Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past. (George Orwell)

[Serendipity]

UK News: The strike has been called off http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

Robbie Fowler looks likely to leave Liverpool and join Leeds United. He hasn't had a regular place in the squad since Michael Owen became the golden boy! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

Speaking of Owen, Lazio have (I have heard) paid £1 million to Liverpool in order to secure first refusal if he should choose to leave Liverpool. They would happily pay £20 million for him, as would a lot of teams. I doubt he will leave Liverpool for a long time.

I watched an FA Cup 1st round match last night, Macclesfield vs somebody else ( http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif), it went to extra time, then penalties. There had already been 2 penalties in the match (one was saved), and there were 22 further penalty kicks at the end of extra time, total = 24. This is a new FA Cup record!

[ogb]

Bayer played horrible yesterday (0-4). Both teams protested against the result of the match already before the kickoff, but I guess that Juventus withdraw meanwhile http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif. The Bayer preparation for the match - Wednesday: referee says that it can't be played (8.45); both teams agree on January 30th as new date for the match, but UEFA doesn't accept (10.12); the team finds someone in Turin who is able to make a dinner for the whole team (11); finally they find a hotel for the night 100km outside Turin (they arrive 1.30 a.m. on Thursday); Thursday: wake up call (10), driving to the stadium (12.30 - in between there must have been breakfast and lunch), kickoff in an almost empty stadium in Turin (attendance max. 5.000; 3 pm). Somehow I feel that it's irregular...

Concerning the Sep 11th matches: UEFA paid the costs for the team. I know it because 2nd league team Union Berlin had to play in Finland and they also couldn't afford the costs. I heard that Lyngby went bankruptcy, is it true?

The World Championship for Clubs is a ridiculous competition. If you are not the team who wins it, nobody accepts it. The sports magazines considered the 2nd leg of the national cup more important than this match.

I also like Hertha. When I did my practical training in Berlin, I attended one match (2-1 vs 1860 Munich), but I didn't like the atmosphere. The fans there are hypercritical. My Bundesliga favourites (also in this ranking): Bayer Leverkusen, Hertha BSC, Werder Bremen

I think it is great that Liverpool lets Fowler go, especially as he now plays for their direct rivals. It would be unimaginable that Bayern here allows a player to leave to a club that could be dangerous for them. That's also bad for the national team as Jancker and Zickler are sitting on their bench for already quite a long time although they'd play in almost every other team.

[This message has been edited by ogb (edited November 30, 2001).]

[Sjax]

Originally posted by ogb:
I heard that Lyngby went bankruptcy, is it true?



I am afraid it is. They havent been declared bankrupt yet, but all the players have been given free transfer.
They now have to play the rest of the season with amateur players.
I didnt know that anybody outside Denmark knew about it.

Its a bit sad, but it is good news for the club I support who is fighting against relegation.

[Sjax]

Then came the groups for the World Championship.
Denmark have to play France as they did in the world championship 1998 and the european championship 2000.
The other teams in Denmarks group: Senegal and Uruguay. Do any of you know anything about these teams.

Serendipity: Enjoy your group with Argentina, Sweden and Nigeria. That has to be the hardest group...

ogb: Do you understand why Germany has a reputation of being lucky?

[ogb]

Denmarks group is quite alright. France will make it easily, Denmark fights with Uruguay for the second rank.

Group F is the death group. Good that Germany was seeded and England not http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif (to be honest: everybody here feared to be in one group with England). Hard job, dippy! But to encourage you (you haven't posted yet, I hope you are not knocked down?): I bet that the WC winner is someone who survives this group.

Sjax, no I don't understand, do you? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif It should be an easy group, although I highly respect Ireland. Cameroon has a special note as their coach is German: Winnie Schäfer, who was very successful with Karlsruhe until the middle of the 90s. Every team he coached after that time completely failed, so he wants to prove that he is still good enough for the Bundesliga. If Germany doesn't survive this group, the players can stay in Japan and apply for their citizenship. Although I have to say that except group F (England etc.) none of the favourites has a difficult task.
And Sjax, according to an international board I can tell you that group H (Belgium, Russia, Japan and Tunisia) is by far considered to be the easiest group, followed by group C (Brazil, Turkey, China, Costa Rica) and the German group is only ranked 5.

[ogb]

Originally posted by Sjax:
The other teams in Denmarks group: Senegal and Uruguay. Do any of you know anything about these teams.


Sorry, I didn't see your question. I have no clue about Senegal. They appear for the first time at a WC. They should be beatable. I saw the Uruguay - Australia relegation match (3-0). I heard that they are good in the defence, but aren't too scaring in the offence. Some of their stars play in Italy. According to a German Late Night host, it is a team that has to be at the WC because "this is one of the teams that are really dumb. They are doing brutal tacklings from behind and don't care that the referee is standing two metres away. They'll drive home without any victory, got five red cards and everybody laughes at them - but they don't care." http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

[aclu14]

Originally posted by Sjax:
I agree that any rreal sport include a ball...



Does that mean you agree that ping pong is a sport? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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I'll think of a better sig when I feel like it! Now stop bothering me! :D

[Serendipity]

Ogb & Sjax: Uruguay also were the winners of the very first World Cup in the 1930's. Guess they have gone downhill. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

Aclu: There is no such sport as ping-pong. There is a sport, and it is definitely a sport, called table tennis. Table tennis is played with a ping-pong ball. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Beware The Wrath of Mod!
Mod Squad Poster (http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/serendipity/MSPoster/ModSquad.html)

[ogb]

Aclu, ahem... I played table tennis until the age of 15! But I admit that it is a very boring sport if you don't play it yourself.

Dippy, what do you want to tell us with "Uruguay was champion in 1930"? Besides that everyone knows that - do you think that some of the world champions are still playing today or why are you scaring Sjax? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Sjax]

Yes aclu, I consider table tennis a sport. I too think it is boring to watch, but funny to play.
And yes Serindipity, I knew that Uruguay was world championship in 1930, I just dont know anything about the CURRENT team.
ogb. one of the main reasons that Germanys group isnt the easiest, is that Germany is in it. That makes it a whole lot harder.
But...No groups at the world championship is easy. All the teams are good.

[Serendipity]

There's a bit of huffiness (for want of a better word) around here that England are seeded 10th - after Germany http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif, Japan (and/or Korea), and several (er, seven http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif)others. Still, the seeding is based on performance in the last two World Cups, among other things.

[ogb]

The FIFA considered the last three world cups and the last three world rankings. As nobody knows how they calculate it, Germany could celebrate, but the difference to England was quite big. What should FIFA do? They need German sponsor money http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif. It would have been interesting to see how they had managed to find a 33rd spot if Germany had failed the qualification http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif. It was the same at the beginning of the 90s with icehockey. Germany was too bad for the A-league and so the world association increased the number of starters annually until they couldn't help anymore.

Sjax, you are right. Germany is a strong opponent - especially for themselves.

[Lis]

*hangs my head in shame* Oz can't even qualify....so humiliating http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Sjax]

Hey Lis, didnt Australia play playoff against Uruguay?
If they did, maybe you know something about their current team.

Dont be ashamed of the australian national team. As far as I remember they won one of their qualification matches 37-0

[ogb]

That's half-true, Australia had several world records during the qualifiers (okay, it isn't really a wonder with this opponents http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif). First it was a 22-0 vs Tonga and then a 31-0 vs American Samoa. In this match one player scored 13 goals, which is also world record - and during these matches they didn't even use their European players. I think it's quite a pity that they aren't qualified as their squad meanwhile is quite good. If they had to play the deciding match vs an Asian and not a South American team, they'd surely be qualified.

[Sjax]

I agree that it is a pity that they didnt qualify. It is allways interesting when a none-european or southamerican team do well. I look forward to see such teams as USA, China, and some of the african ones which you dont see often as a european.

Dippy and ogb: Who, apart from your own countries, do you consider favourites? Mine would have to be Argentina, but I think it is pretty hard to say. Especially after they got in that death group with England Nigeria and Sweden.

I hope Portugal will do well. I like their style of playing, and they really impressed me at the European Championship in 2000.

[Serendipity]

I think a lot of Argentina. England have quite a grudge against Argentina, what with the Falklands, the Hand of God, and Beckham's sending-off in '98.

I'm not afraid (for England) of any European team. That is to say, I think we have the best team and best manager that we've had for decades. But all the teams that qualify are good, I don't dismiss any of them.

It is sad about Australia http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Sjax]

Originally posted by Serendipity:
I think a lot of Argentina. England have quite a grudge against Argentina, what with the Falklands, the Hand of God, and Beckham's sending-off in '98.


Are you aware that he was sent of by the DANISH referee Kim Milton Nielsen??? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/redface.gif

[ogb]

Milton-Nielsen is a good referee, but he had a VERY bad day at the WC98. I already did a bet that Argentina doesn't survive the group matches, so I won't tell that they are a favourite (I hate their way of playing). Also I don't like France and Italy because of that. Nevertheless they are one of the favourites. Would be nice if England makes it, or Spain. Germany is definitely no favourite this time.

[Lis]

*grinz* it is sad about Australia...tho if we cant beat Uruguay what hope would we have against the rest....I mean really http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

I dont really follow Soccer sorry Dippy so I know VERY little about the team sorry.....I only know about it for patriotic reasons.....heheheh Aussies are meant to kick ass in all non-winter sports *grrrr* heheheh http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

[ogb]

So, what do you think of the EC 2004 qualifiers draw? Denmark has it pretty tough with Norway, Romania and Bosnia; England will compete for the direct qualification with Turkey and Germany had luck once again. Scotland with a coach Berti Vogts will be the first team of Scottish sissies; iceland is nice, but no real opponent; Lithuania is at least an Easteuropean team we have never played before and the Faroe Islands are cute (they are very popular over here since they have beaten Austria some years ago http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif)

[Sjax]

Good call to get this discussion rolling agian ogb. Lets see if some of the dutchmen will join us when the World Championship is kicked off this summer. ...Oh...right...sorry about that http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Well, no surprise that Germany was lucky. About Denmarks group: Im pretty confident that we will make it. Romania isnt whaat they used to be, and Norway iss a walkover (at least, thats what most danes like to believe).

[ogb]

Originally posted by Sjax:
Lets see if some of the dutchmen will join us when the World Championship is kicked off this summer. ...Oh...right...sorry about that http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

About Denmarks group: Im pretty confident that we will make it. Romania isnt whaat they used to be, and Norway iss a walkover (at least, thats what most danes like to believe).

I'm glad that someone else stated it http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Romania is better than England and the Netherlands, ask UEFA http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif. I also think that Denmark will make it, but on good days Romania, Norway and Bosnia can beat them.

[Sjax]

I dont know very much about Bosnia. I believe Hasan Salihamidic from Bayern München is bosnian, but Im not sure. If he is he would be the only one I know.

Romania is placed high on UEFAs ranking list because of their earlier results. But I dont think they are that good anymore, but they are certainly a threat to the danish team.

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Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past. (George Orwell)

[Serendipity]

Thanks for getting this topic going again http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

Yeah, England should do well in EC 2004. Turkey is the only team worth worrying about in our group.

All the groups:

1. France, Slovenia, Israel, Cyprus, Malta
2. Romania, Denmark, Norway, Bosnia, Luxembourg
3. Czech Republic, Netherlands, Austria, Belarus, Moldova
4. Sweden, Poland, Hungary, Latvia, San Marino
5. Germany, Scotland, Iceland, Lithuania, Faroe Islands
6. Spain, Ukraine, Greece, Northern Ireland, Armenia
7. Turkey, England, Slovakia, Macedonia, Liechtenstein
8. Belgium, Croatia, Bulgaria, Estonia, Andorra
9. Italy, Yugoslavia, Finland, Wales, Azerbaijan
10. Republic of Ireland, Russia, Switzerland, Albania, Georgia


In the UK, my beloved Spurs are in the final of the Worthington Cup (the "third prize" in UK football) against Blackburn Rovers, and we only have to beat Bolton Wanderers in our FA Cup 4th round match (it was postponed on Saturday) to meet Tranmere Rovers in the 5th. We should win both matches.

P.S. To get to the final of the Worthington Cup, we beat Chelsea 5-1 (a scoreline I like for some reason...), our first victory over them in 12 years... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[ogb]

Salihamidzic is Bosnian, Bruno Akrapovic, a Cottbus player, as well. They usually make about 10 to 15 pts but don't qualify. Romania is indeed fading.

A German result has to be posted here:
SCHALKE VS BAYERN 5-1 !!! And Bayern was well off with this score. They now are already eight pts behind Leverkusen and Dortmund. Their match vs Leverkusen next week is their last chance to return to the top.

[Serendipity]

Congratulations to Cameroon, who won the African Nations Cup today, on penalties. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Beware The Wrath of Mod!
Mod Squad Poster (http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/serendipity/MSPoster/ModSquad.html)

[Sjax]

And runners-up was Senegal. Seems they are a better oponent to Denmark than I thought...

[ogb]

Originally posted by Sjax:
And runners-up was Senegal. Seems they are a better oponent to Denmark than I thought...

Yes, especially if you consider that Cameroon tried to poison them with the smell of their sweat in the sleeveless shirts http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif. But really, I don't know about the quality of this tournament. Denmark with Senegal and Germany with Cameroon have to be careful, but usually they should make it.

[Sjax]

The danish club Lyngby is bankrupt. Instead of relegating them right away, the danish football association (dbu) has decided that they have to play the rest of the season with an amateur team. They have played 4 matches with such a team now and hav lost: 0-5, 2-5. 0-5 and yesterday they lost 0-7.

The problem with this is that some of the clubs played them before they went bankrupt, and others after. The club that I support played them before, and drew 2-2 against them, and a lot of the other clubs can get "free" points and a very good goal-difference against them. Not the best solution, I think.

[Sjax]

btw, I dont think "goal-difference" is a real word, but I cant remember what its called. I hope you understand what I mean.

[Serendipity]

Yeah, Sjax, goal difference is the correct term. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

There's a huge mess in British football at the moment, all to do with TV broadcast rights. ITV Digital (a TV company which desperately wanted to take over TV coverage from Sky TV) signed a contract with the FA, saying they will pay X million pounds for broadcast rights. Now they want to reduce the amount. The FA, naturally, is demanding that ITV Dig. stick to their contract terms, but ITV Dig. can't afford it. Many smaller clubs have already spent the money, so they need ITV Dig. to pay. ITV Dig. will probably go bust if they are forced to pay in full, and many clubs will go bust if they don't. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

All of which doesn't take away the fact that my beloved Spurs lost the final of the Worthington Cup, http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif they are no longer in the FA Cup, http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif are having a bad patch in the league, and the only thing I'm happy about is that Arsenal are out of the Champion's League... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

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Beware The Wrath of Mod!
Mod Squad Poster (http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/serendipity/MSPoster/ModSquad.html) - print it out and pin it up!

[Phreakmeister]

Then to Belgium:
First there was a club from the Belgian Premier League (Eerste Klasse), Eendracht Aalst, who went bankrupt. In order to finish the season, they wanted to fire I think 10 players. They wanted to cut the first team from 26 to 16 players. The team protested, so the club fired the entire team. The club now wants to hire players from other clubs for every match still to play. But it is doubtful whether they will make it to the end of the season or not.
And yesterday it turned out that another club, RWDM (Racing White Daring Molenbeek), also from the Premier League, didn't get a license for the next season either. They'll relegate as well.

And 2 other clubs, Lommel and La Louvière have conditionally gotten a license to play in the Premier League next season.



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Do you believe in death after life?

[Sjax]

It seems that clubs are going bankrupt all over. Why do you think? Is it the players wages that has risen too high, or the transfer fees?
I remember when Brøndby (the best danish club) sold Peter Schmeichel to Manchester united for 10 mill. kroner (about 1.2 mill. dollars). He was already a great keeper, who had just won the European Championship with Denmark in 1992.
Brøndby sold Michael Laudrup for a simular amount. Thats only ten years ago. To day you have to pay ten times as much just to get a decent player.

btw Serendipity, you may not believe this, but Spurs has always been my favourites in Premier league. I have a favourite team in almost any european league.

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Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past. (George Orwell)

[Sjax]

*still desperately trying to keep this thread alive 'till the World Championship kicks off*

This sunday the club I support, Vejle, played another club AB. AB won the match 4-0. But AB used 4 foreign players in the match, when they were only allowed to use 3, and now Vejle will get the three point, s if they had won the game.
Stupid mistake from AB, but very lucky for Vejle, who is fighting against relegation this season.

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It is amazing what little harm doctors do when one considers all the opportunity they have.
(Mark Twain)