Please Explain This To Me...

[CBranski]

Recently the Catholic Church in the US has come under fire for hiding pediophilia (sp?) amongst some priests, the biggest scandal being in Boston. The priests involved were given "treatment" and "reassigned." Priests however who were caught having relations with grown consenting women were defrocked.

Recently the Milwaukee Archdiocese "found" that six priests in the Diocese were "counseled" and reassigned for the same reasons that occured in Boston. (A whole bunch of TV cameras and microphones seem to have pointed the previously silent Diocese to the proper file.)

On the other hand, two priests who did excellent work in poor, inner city parishes were defrocked and run out of town when it was discovered that they had sexual relations with adult women. From what I can see here, pediophiles who are despised almost everywhere in society were given a pass, while two others who acted as mother nature intended were defrocked.

I'm not trying to offend devout Catholics here, I'm just trying to point out what I see as inherently illogical. While I believe in a Supreme Being, I subscribe to no organized religion because I frankly don't trust a lot of the leadership; the above examples only prove why.

Again, I hope no one was offended-I just call 'em as I see 'em.

------------------
Tony Soprano for Sherriff!

[The Horseman]

All I can say is that my church is old, established and weird to the point of insanity.

The best explanation I can give you is that the church wants to hush up any child abuse. Sex with women, however, is less embarrasing, and therefore more easy to punish.

[~wildangel~]

Im catholic and not offended, I agree with Horse http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

[The Horseman]

This has absolutely nothing to do with this topic, but thanks Wild. That's just about the first nickname anyone's given me which I've liked (I'm one of those spotty geeks in the corner-sort-of-people)

[weldordave]

Does it surprise you? The Catholics and history? The Inquisition, going with the explorers to the "new world" and burning the great libraries of central and south America. 400 years of brainwashing the people of the Pacific Islands with the Spanish. Europeans claiming dominance in the name of God and country? What God gave you the right? Now to find out that it is but a CULT for pedophiles. Time will ALWAYS tell. As you drop your duckets in the tray think of what you are supporting. You are but a blind fool which finances this outrage perpetrated on mankind. The Vatican is a very wealthy country. Remember Operation Paperclip at the end of WW2? They made quite a tidy prophet funneling Nazis out of Germany. What is the difference between a church and a cult? Answer: The church has been around longer. And don't cut into their profits! As Thomas Jefferson said: Religion is a great thing, it is too bad churches must get involved (not exact).

[This message has been edited by weldordave (edited March 27, 2002).]

[weldordave]

[This message has been edited by weldordave (edited March 27, 2002).]

[The Horseman]

Hey. The Catholic Church has done some very brutal things in it's time, but there are some exceptional people working for it, and most are decent, honourable and upstanding individuals. My priest, for example, is an good man, who has given his entire life to the benefit of other people. And don't forget that the Church has produced some great individuals - Mother Theresa for one. There are bad people in every organisation Dave, and sometimes the church isn't perfect. But it is trying to be better than it has been, so give it a break OK?

[Phreakmeister]

I'm a buddhist atheïst from a protestant family with a catholic surname, and not offended by this article either.

I agree with Horse. The mistakes are made by some catholics. Blaming the entire Church for that is not right. But on the other hand, the hushing up is being done by the Church, which is a bad thing. But that's politics, I'm afraid...

------------------
Do you believe in death after life?

[The Horseman]

Personally, I blame the vow of chastity. Humans are meant to go without sex, and the stories coming out now seem to show the result.

[Serendipity]

Originally posted by The Horseman:
Personally, I blame the vow of chastity. Humans are meant to go without sex, and the stories coming out now seem to show the result.

I don't blame the vow of chastity. I blame paedophiles taking advantage of the Church, using the Church to gain access to kids. The Church's attitude has been ridiculously lax, though. I understand the Pope is on the case now, so there *might* be some change. Defrocking those who transgress with consenting women whilst "counselling" and reassigning those who transgress with young boys is absolutely insane.

[Phreakmeister]

Wow, the pope is on the case. That'll really do the job. That'll teach them not to play with children. The pope will kick their a$$e$.

------------------
Do you believe in death after life?

Not that either of these acts are right as priests take a vow and must be strong enough not to break them. But we don't need to concern ourselves too terribly over the outcome of their crimes fortunately, as we will all be judged, PERIOD! God said vengence is mine, and I believe him! No slick snake of a lawyer will save any of us come dee day, and many have much to fear, don't you think? My opinion on pedophile priests and their lot is of little importance and so is yours. Just be sure of your own sinfull ways and make certain your not one of those that need to be afraid.

[Zany-J]

WOW. That really spooked me and i try an' be good. Are you an evangilist minister?

[RockBottomDLux]

I don't think it's right to blame the church or vows or anything. IT'S THE PRIESTS THEMSELVES. It's like the saying: Guns don't kill people; people kill people. The people use the gun to kill. So priests go against the vow.

And for anyone who is of a different religion who is laughing in the face of the church: It happens in your religion too! http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/TroutSlap.gif

My speech is over. You may continue http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/Punch.gif ing people as you were before! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
How else can I say it; I don't speak no other languages!
Extra Smilies Webpage! Featured on Google! (http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com)
My Place - CornerHouseGames (http://pub101.ezboard.com/bcornerhousegames)

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by tramp433:
Not that either of these acts are right as priests take a vow and must be strong enough not to break them. But we don't need to concern ourselves too terribly over the outcome of their crimes fortunately, as we will all be judged, PERIOD! God said vengence is mine, and I believe him! No slick snake of a lawyer will save any of us come dee day, and many have much to fear, don't you think? My opinion on pedophile priests and their lot is of little importance and so is yours. Just be sure of your own sinfull ways and make certain your not one of those that need to be afraid.

That attitude is exactly what is called NIMBY. NIMBY stands for Not In My Back Yard. "I don't care what happens, as long as it doesn't affect me". If you say this, then it means that anything has to be legal. "Only God can judge if you killed that person, so let's just legalize murder". YUK!!!!!!!!
Maybe God exists, maybe he doesn't, we humans are too tiny to ever find out for certain. It's all a matter of belief. But we cannot let anything happen. We cannot let people with a degree of authority, such as priests, abuse people who put trust in them, for instance children. We just can't let that happen, for the sake of the people. For the sake of mankind.

And I agree with RB da Lux. It's the PRIESTS who commit the abuse. But on the other hand, let's face it, it's the CHURCH that covered it up.


------------------
Do you believe in death after life?

[~wildangel~]

http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

------------------
~Wildest lil angel~
~The MOD Squad~ (http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/serendipity/MSPoster/ModSquad.html)
The Coffee shop (http://pub83.ezboard.com/bcosmiccoffeeshop)
*Nathans page* (http://www.geocities.com/jssejmsgrl/Nathanspage.html)~Chianas~ (http://pub12.ezboard.com/bchianassoapworld)

[aclu14]

I don't agree with you that much, dave, but this time I do.
For Easter, we took my grandma to mass and it was the weirdest thing ever. The priest chanted half of the sermon and what is up with that crossing thing? And the wafer thing? Too many symbols and hidden meanings for me. There aren't any Bibles in the pews, that's what really got me.
Not to offend anyone...

------------------
Stop monkeying around George Dubya! (http://pics.steakandcheese.com/ookook.jpg)

Join the Oppositionist Party! (http://www.geocities.com/lucifer_is_hungry/opinionated_online)

[Serendipity]

Originally posted by tramp433:
Not that either of these acts are right as priests take a vow and must be strong enough not to break them. But we don't need to concern ourselves too terribly over the outcome of their crimes fortunately, as we will all be judged, PERIOD! God said vengence is mine, and I believe him! No slick snake of a lawyer will save any of us come dee day, and many have much to fear, don't you think? My opinion on pedophile priests and their lot is of little importance and so is yours. Just be sure of your own sinfull ways and make certain your not one of those that need to be afraid.

Tramp, perhaps your opinion of paedophile priests is of little importance, mine is not. "But we don't need to concern ourselves too terribly over the outcome of their crimes..." Maybe not too terribly (whatever that means), but such apathy as you're suggesting is completely unacceptable. God may well decide what happens to their immortal souls, WE have to take responsibility for what happens here on earth. The actions of paedophiles have consequences, for the children involved, and it makes the Church look like a heap of crap too.

[The Horseman]

What ever happened to forgiving a man seventy times seven times?

[Enforcer]

A ridiculous course of action is all i can say...

------------------
SQUARE RULES!!!!!

WEIRD AL YANCOVIC RULES!!!

WHAT WOULD LIFE BE WITHOUT RPG's?????

RPG-LESS OF COURSE...WE CAN'T HAVE THAT...

[weldordave]

If ACLU14 (my fingers burned while typing that) uses "agree" and "dave" in the same sentence can Paul, Jeff, Id, or Dippy be watching this site that carefully?
ACLU14 make up your own mind, choose carefully, and have a good life. In spite of religion!

[Enforcer]

...

------------------
SQUARE RULES!!!!!

WEIRD AL YANCOVIC RULES!!!

WHAT WOULD LIFE BE WITHOUT RPG's?????

RPG-LESS OF COURSE...WE CAN'T HAVE THAT...

[aclu14]

Can't remember what it is you have against me, dave, but my own religion is on the fence now

[weldordave]

Nothing at all ACLU. I find it amazing that a young adult like yourself going under ACLU would agree with a cynical old buzzard like me. Hey, you are so OK that I'll share my recipe for Spotted Owl soup with you.

[Serendipity]

Hey, Dave and Aclu, isn't the power of the internet amazing?! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif All part of the Wonderful DumbLaws™ service!

------------------
Beware The Wrath of Mod!
Mod Squad Poster (http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/serendipity/MSPoster/ModSquad.html) - print it out and pin it up!

All I can say is: FIRST AMENDMENT! FIRST AMENDMENT!...All these guys off in left field have taken that SO out of context, that a kid would get into hot water for just wearing earings in the shape of a cross, or for bowing their head (silently) to themself before lunch, etc., etc.! The key word in the first Amendment is "interfere". In the above cases (and many more I can think of), no one is interfering with anyone else's rights.
I guess where I'm going with this is, if those people want to go THAT far out on a limb, well, maybe the other side should do the same thing: men of the cloth shouldn't have to have STATE issued drivers licenses, they shouldn't have to register their vehicles-after all, it's a STATE operated system, nor should they be subject to any STATE charge-civil, traffic, or criminal (as one of the D.A.'s was trying to get the church to let THEM handle it, instead of the church doing their own investigation.)
Maybe we should start saying this kind of stuff-to show the other guys just how ignorant they really sound! (If you follow.) I don't think they'd agree to these suggestions in a million years!

[Lis]

God may judge you in your afterlife if thats what you like to believe Tramp but for the rest of us atheists I'd prefere to judge during my time on earth, because it is MY belief that now is the only time we have. I accept your belief, you may or may not accept mine, but it is general concensus within society that we all LIVE by the rules of humanity...meaning please dont ignore the problem or pass it off in the belief that it will be dealt with later...attitudes like that only add to the problem. Your god MAY judge...we CAN judge...I know which is certain to be effective.

------------------
Despite the cost of living, notice how it remains popular?

[This message has been edited by Lis (edited April 29, 2002).]

[Zany-J]

Yep pretty much agree with what you're sayin Lis.

In my job as a health care assistant i have seen many people die. It makes you think that whatever your religion (or not) that life is too short and so you should live it best you can. You cannot be certain that these priests will be judged by god. They certainly need to be judged by us, otherwise they are just using the church for protection.

Personally I live by my own moral code but believe in Karma and the nice bits out of other religions too. Though that does NOT mean that I would ignore these priests because the Karma works through re-incarnation. I believe that we have the ability to intervene in someone else's life where it is necessary. It would be bad Karma for all of us if we just ignored the problem like the Church is doing.

[Idnew]

WeldBelieve me some of us are watching this site http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

Sorry Tramp looks like your outnumbered by all believers and non-believers.

Yes I believe we will all be judged some day, but while we are here on earth we also have to punish those that need it or just ignore them to go on doing whatever nasty business they want to do and the only ones that I think are innocent are children to a certain degree and should be protected from such vultures.

------------------
(ô¿ô)Proud member of the Dumb Laws Mod Squad so watch it!*smile*

Attitude Ajustments Gladly Performed(ö¿ö)

My Home Spot (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/Doing_Whatever.htm)

Brain Mania (http://www.brainmania.com)

Cosmic Coffee Shop (http://pub83.ezboard.com/bcosmiccoffeeshop)
Meet The Squad (http://www.geocities.com/idnew52/Mod_Squad_Poster.htm)

[amr]

Since the First Amendment has been brought up, I'm posting it here for reference:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


I think the key phrase here is "...the free excercise thereof." Although not included in the First Amendment, it is commonly interpreted that you may practice your religion as long as those practices are within the law. If my religion required me to dye my hair green as part of my worship, it is perfectly acceptable because there are no laws against green hair. However, if my worship required ritualistic murder, then that is illegal by the standards of the law and I would be punished for it. My right lies soley in the ability to petition the court to recognise murder as a religious practice and request immunity from prosecution.

Molesting children is not a religious practice, and is in fact a crime. The Catholic Church knows this (why else did they cover it up?) and cannot claim any sort of immunity for it. Priests may be men of the cloth, but they are also citizens of a country and are therefore subject to the law of the land.

------------------
a politician is an arse upon which
everything has sat except a man
--e.e. cummings