Declaring Independence

[TV_Guy]

G'day All,

Fantastic Site by the way.
(Blatant Flattery)

I was interested if anyone has heard of or confirm or point me in the right direction regarding this.
I was told by some friends the other day the following:

Apparently some guys stumbled across a law that let them declare independance if they owned a certain ammount of land. They apparently registered there lounge as a new country or a least attempted to. Has anyone heard of anything similar or any old laws like that?

It sounds suspiciously like Urban Legend, but I need to research it for a story. Also has anyone heard of any movies or books along similar lines? Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers,

[Phreakmeister]

I know that Hutt River Province in Western Australia declared independence as "The Hutt River Province Principality". It is ruled by H.R.H. Prince Leonard. I am not making this up. They even have an own homepage: http://www.wps.com.au/hutriver/hut1.htm

So there have been cases like that, although HRP has never been recognized.

What I do know, is that it's part of the constitution in Ethiopia. Every region in Ethiopia has the constitutional right to declare independence. The last time it was used was somewhere in the early 90's, when Eritrea became independent.

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For other countries like Hutt River Province, check out http://www.angelfire.com/nv/micronations/newcountry.html

[TV_Guy]

Cheers, that site is a great start. Yes I read about that australian situation (In a FHM I beleive http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/tongue.gif ) and had forgot about it.

Looking for any other cases...

[Idnew]

Welcome TV. Hope you stick around and join us in some of the other forums.

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Anyone can, if they want to, declare themselves independent. Whether their claim to inpependnce will be recognised by anyone else is another matter. For example, during (I think) the 1970's, The Isle of Dogs (a part of London) declared itself independent for a few days. At the time, there were only 2 roads into the area (it's not an island) and they blocked both of them. I'm not quite sure why they did this, but it happened.
And then, there's Sealand (http://www.sealandgov.com/)

[TV_Guy]

Cheers for the welcome.

Has anyone ever heard of a movie or book (Fiction) touching on this sorta plot?

[Serendipity]

Hi, TV Guy http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif The only film that springs to mind is Passport to Pimlico (http://www.britmovie.co.uk/studios/ealing/filmography/52.html), an old B&W Ealing comedy (I think it's an Ealing comedy anyway). The link I provided gives a synopsis which includes the origins of the story - you can do the research from there! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

I used to live in Hay-on-Wye, a small market town on the England/Wales border. On April 1st ( http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif) a local businessman declared independence for the whole town. We had our own passports (complete with visas for every pub in town!), and a big independence day party. I remember with joy putting 10p into the Hay Patriotic Machine, which was a disused Space Invader cabinet that you looked through the glass and there was a small model living-room. After a moment a lamp came on, lighting up a tiny Hay flag in the middle of the living-room, and Hay's national anthem (Colonel Bogie) would play. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Of course, Hay's independence was just a publicity stunt, but good fun.

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[MacReady]

Originally posted by AndrewR:
Anyone can, if they want to, declare themselves independent. Whether their claim to inpependnce will be recognised by anyone else is another matter. For example, during (I think) the 1970's, The Isle of Dogs (a part of London) declared itself independent for a few days. At the time, there were only 2 roads into the area (it's not an island) and they blocked both of them. I'm not quite sure why they did this, but it happened.
And then, there's Sealand (http://www.sealandgov.com/)

If large group of people in American declare independance from government, government wouldnt allow it, they would do anything in power to stop it even meaning killing. America law said that US army or national guard cannot fire at Americans but in 1970 during protesting against vietnam at Kent college, I think that is right college, government order national guard to fire and killed America protestors. If 200 million Americans want independance from America government and commonwealth, government will use bombs or maybe nukes to stop it if Americans cant wait for voting year or found out government secretly in full control making voting and everything in government business an illiusion. Only government and commonwealth or elite class ppl will be protect for anything like outbreak of virus, plague, wars, WW3, riots, attacks, recession or depression, etc but middle class, poor class, rich class (not corp owner rich, not commonwealth or 100 years family generation rich kinds) people wont be protect except maybe local police, medic, or fireman trying to help. Elite class or commonwealth ppl will never lose all money or go broke unless America government is overthrow by Americans or other countries. Yes Americans can delcare independance from government like English did when they move to 13 colonies during George Washington or Jeffery time to indendance from England. But it would be a huge mess cuz we ran out of lands and have to split America land into half or pieces like civil war.

[Phreakmeister]

Sure, any country can declare independence. But there's a difference between being able to declare it, and having the right to declare it. In Ethiopia, it is a constitutional right.

It may have been changed by now though, because recently I found out that a region in the southeast, bordering to Somalia, called Tigre, has declared independence. Well, as we probably all know, it still is a part of Ethiopia. So either the Ethiopian government doesn't respect its own constitution, or the constitution has been changed.

[Sephirstein]

Oh my God...That is so funny... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif...Now about Taiwan...

[Phreakmeister]

What's with Taiwan?

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Do you believe in death after life?

[weldordave]

Originally posted by Phreakmeister:
What's with Taiwan?


They had no "right" to declare ind. from communist China. They did, got support, and are still "free?". History in a nutshell.

[Phreakmeister]

Well, here are some more nations that had "no right of independence":
The Netherlands, the US, Canada, Australia. Etc. etc. etc.

Every single country has the right of self-determination. Both legal and moral. And if Taiwan no longer wishes to be part of mainland China, then they are completely entitled to do so.

If a country is wrong in this conflict, it's China, for oppressing its people, not Taiwan, for wanting to protect its citizens from oppression

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Do you believe in death after life?

[TV_Guy]

Australia isn't independant, it's still part of the commonwealth just like NZ.

Originally posted by Phreakmeister:
Well, here are some more nations that had "no right of independence":
The Netherlands, the US, Canada, Australia. Etc. etc. etc.

Every single country has the right of self-determination. Both legal and moral. And if Taiwan no longer wishes to be part of mainland China, then they are completely entitled to do so.

If a country is wrong in this conflict, it's China, for oppressing its people, not Taiwan, for wanting to protect its citizens from oppression



I'd like to see what would happen today if Hawaii decided to announce it's independence. Fat chance. As great as the Good Ole' U.S. of A. is there is now way a state could leave the Union... just ask the South.

[Phreakmeister]

The leader of the Hawaiian Independence Movement has seeked asylum in The Netherlands actually. I'm not making this up.

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[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by TV_Guy:
Australia isn't independant, it's still part of the commonwealth just like NZ.

True, but let's face it, Britain has nothing to say over OZ and NZ anymore. So de facto they are independent, and it's only a matter of time before they become full-scale republics.

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[weldordave]

Man, Phreak, you always have to follow my posts? Alright, here's something that will rattle your cage. The Netherlands free? Yes, I can hear the clamor now. "Screw da EU. Da Nederlans makes dare own vay, ya." I can hardly wait for your answer to this. This is in light humor, Phreak, so I apologize in advance for getting your blood boiling.
I am 50mi. from Canada and they are us, or we are them depending on which side of the non-existant border you're on.
You seem all fired-up about revolution and freedom. Funny, seeing as how you have to get permission from Norway to flush your toilettes.
Finally, the reason I put free in quotations is that I think Taiwan is not quite free but rather has to jump through some hoops at someone elses bidding to maintain what they got.

[Phreakmeister]

You wonder what my reaction would be to you saying The Netherlands has to step out of the EU? Well, actually I couldn't care less if we're part of it or not. It would bring back the guilder, that would be a good part of it.

What do you mean we have to get permission from Norway to flush our toilets?? What does Norway have to do with our toilets?
The water in the toilets is Dutch, the toilets themselves are produced in The Netherlands. I don't see what Norway has to say about our toilets.

You also said that Taiwan didn't have the right to declare independence from China, which is a load of bull$hit, both legally and morally.

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[This message has been edited by Phreakmeister (edited February 18, 2002).]

[weldordave]

.

You also said that Taiwan didn't have the right to declare independence from China, which is a load of bull$hit, both legally and morally.

[/B]
Then why doesn't the Netherlands send THEIR Navy and Marines over there to protect Taiwan? At the cost of the Netherlands? Oh, thats right, you have to first actually HAVE a viable force to protect other countries freedom. Don't get me wrong, I really don't mind paying taxes for our military protecting other countries. Just that beyond gianing freedom they should think about how they will maintain that freedom without becoming dependent on the "evil" US of A.

[aclu14]

I wrote a story once about how a bunch of anarchists took over an area of land the size of Rhode Island and set up their own country. It was a pretty cool story.

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[cleoeo]

It isn't so easy to declare independence. We achieved independence from England in the late 1700's basically because the logistics of supplying their army on the other side of the ocean proved too difficult. Not that they didn't try.
By the 1860's the Southern States tried to seceed from the Union, and formed the Confederate States of America. One Helluva war ensued.
Every so often we get some loony fringe group trying to declare their own independence. They wind up jailed on various charges, including firearm violations and Federal income tax evasion. Don't mess with the Feds.

[TV_Guy]

I'm sick of these US morons who think the US is the only country that does anything. NZ has a very small defence force but we are active in peacekeeping all around the world. We and the australians were the only ones who helped out the newly independant east timor when there were indonesian sponsored mobs running amok. We are still there keeping them safe and at a huge cost to our tax payers. And unlike US, the rest of the world helps out when there is nothing in it for them. The US only acts when they can see profits for themselves. If the US vanished off the map today it wouldn't make a difference to most of us.

[Enforcer]

The US only acts when they can see profits for themselves.


I don't entirely agree .
It is true that the US doesn't allways do things for the right reasons. I think however that, whether these idea(l)s (about communism for example, with the whole Truman-doctrine-thing) are right or wrong most of the time they do stuff to protect there ideals and ideas, and no war (if that's what U mean) has ever really been for profit, I think.

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LOVE and PEACE!

Maybe I'll get more pessimistic with the years but I hope I never will!

[This message has been edited by Enforcer (edited February 19, 2002).]

[Enforcer]

Oh and just 2 stay on the topic I hereby declare this post to be indepent from dumblaws.com
and shall henceforth be called
www.IRULETHEWORLD.com (http://www.IRULETHEWORLD.com) (wonder if that exists)

I'm gonna see now

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LOVE and PEACE!

Maybe I'll get more pessimistic with the years but I hope I never will!

[Enforcer]

Well i was just at www.iruletheworld.com (http://www.iruletheworld.com) and its alittle creepy ( Teletubbie-creepy) . But is has a nice message...
go there

R espect,
U nderstand,
L ove, and
E njoy.




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LOVE and PEACE!

Maybe I'll get more pessimistic with the years but I hope I never will!

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Enforcer:

The US only acts when they can see profits for themselves.


I don't entirely agree .
It is true that the US doesn't allways do things for the right reasons. I think however that, whether these idea(l)s (about communism for example, with the whole Truman-doctrine-thing) are right or wrong most of the time they do stuff to protect there ideals and ideas, and no war (if that's what U mean) has ever really been for profit, I think.



he meant america seek war for profits. Vietnam for example, firestone company produce tires for car, trees that can produce into rubber which grows in Vietnam. Communist take over south meaning firestone or other tires companies will lose profits. Like Iraq, America need oil from middle east. If oil dry out in middle east, America wouldnt care if middle east crumble down to nothing, arabs lose everything that would be valuable to america. If that happen, all countries in middle east could join together into ally. Cuz Saudi Arabic wont have any oil left to sell America, so america troops wouldnt be needed at Saudi Arabic or Kuwait anymore because tax payer dont want to pay troops to protect oil pumps which are dry up or countries that have nothing valuable for america's benefits.

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by weldordave:
[QUOTE].
Then why doesn't the Netherlands send THEIR Navy and Marines over there to protect Taiwan? At the cost of the Netherlands? Oh, thats right, you have to first actually HAVE a viable force to protect other countries freedom.

Actually, you're making a big mistake there. Coz where do you think the Taiwanese navy comes from? Do you have any idea where those ships were built? In The Netherlands. So we do protect Taiwanese freedom, by supplying them with a navy. Something the US is too afraid to do.

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[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by weldordave:
Funny, seeing as how you have to get permission from Norway to flush your toilettes.

You still haven't answered my question:
Where did you get the idea we have to ask Norway permission to flush our toilets?


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Do you believe in death after life?

The US actually was contemplating selling Taiwan some advanced missle systems used aboard cruisers/destroyers but I didn't follow the story close enough to know whether or not the sale actually happened....anyone know?

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

[weldordave]

Originally posted by Phreakmeister:
Actually, you're making a big mistake there. Coz where do you think the Taiwanese navy comes from? Do you have any idea where those ships were built? In The Netherlands. So we do protect Taiwanese freedom, by supplying them with a navy. Something the US is too afraid to do.


You mean you're doing this to make a profit?? Why, how American of you. How can you live with this "capitalist" venture?

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by Jeff:
The US actually was contemplating selling Taiwan some advanced missle systems used aboard cruisers/destroyers but I didn't follow the story close enough to know whether or not the sale actually happened....anyone know?

China started to complain, so it didn't take place.

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[weldordave]

Originally posted by TV_Guy:
I'm sick of these US morons who think the US is the only country that does anything. NZ has a very small defence force but we are active in peacekeeping all around the world. We and the australians were the only ones who helped out the newly independant east timor when there were indonesian sponsored mobs running amok. We are still there keeping them safe and at a huge cost to our tax payers. And unlike US, the rest of the world helps out when there is nothing in it for them. The US only acts when they can see profits for themselves. If the US vanished off the map today it wouldn't make a difference to most of us.
Hold on TVG. I've been with the Aussies and the Zealanders(man, can they drink!) in various spots around the globe in the 80's. Let me tell you, I have nothing but the UTMOST RESPECT for your armed forces. The Z'Lander IS what every country WISHES their soldiers can be. Well, minus the drinking probably!! The US hardly goes anywhere alone. Unfortunately, the roles of our commrades are usually ignored by the US & world press. I know what you and yours have done and am proud to have been with ya'. BTW I think the Aussies patrol a part of the Korean DMZ-- not sure??????

[TV_Guy]

Cheers,

It's true that the Australia SAS and New Zealand SAS are some of the most elite troops in the world. It's also true they're undervalued by other countries. It was reported that our SAS were busy in Afganistan building the german's troops barracks!

[Enforcer]

*is getting dizzy*

Look poeple, I know there's all sorts of binding treaties, but is it really every country's duty to protect other countries, it's not always as easy too choose sides as it may seem.
As for the whole Afghanistan-thing, I don't even WANNA take sides, cuz I agree afterseptember 11th America did have to do something, but not what they're doing now!

Gelijk of nie, Phreak?

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LOVE and PEACE!

Maybe I'll get more pessimistic with the years but I hope I never will!

[Phreakmeister]

Half gelijk.

Bombing Al-Qaeda and Taliban: wonderful
Bombing Afghanistan: not so great (all those Afghanis are innocent)

Destroying the infrastructure of Al-Qaeda is useless if you don't destroy Al-Qaeda itself. Terrorism can only be stopped if we stop the soil for terrorism.

Afghanistan is only the first step in a marathon.

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[aclu14]

Unghhh. Enough plotting to take over a small country for one night. *looks back and forth* I'm going to bed.

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[Enforcer]

I guess.



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LOVE and PEACE!

Maybe I'll get more pessimistic with the years but I hope I never will!