invaded and Bush likes the idea.

[DEAD ZONE]

The National Association of Chiefs of Police claims national border security is a "sham" and the lack of controls by the federal government is rewarding criminals.

In a statement, Jim Kouri, vice president of the 14,000-member organization, slams the feds for using "smoke and mirrors in our border security strategy." He also indicts states issuing driver's licenses to illegal aliens.

"Even the president of the United States is prepared to reward lawbreakers," he said, referring to President Bush's proposal to legalize millions of illegal aliens in the U.S.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=36780

Lets see, the repubs cant use the spend thrift excuse against dems because they are just as bad.Now the tough on crime issue is no longer theirs either. Sems these main bases of the right are disapearring fast under Heir shrubb.

A report from a Mexican government agency released today says the number of Mexicans entering the U.S. illegally increased by 66 percent from 1990 to 2002.

According to the German news agency Deutsche Presse-Agentur, the study was conducted by the National Population Council, or Conapo. It found the number of illegals coming from Mexico each year now exceeds 1 million. The report says about one-third of those who enter illegally, 390,000 annually, achieve their goal of staying in the U.S.

Deutsche Presse-Agentur reports the number of Mexicans living in the United States went from 4.3 million in 1994 to 9.5 million in 2002, according to U.S. estimates.

It is estimated Mexicans in the U.S. sent approximately $12 billion back to Mexico last year.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=36784

The u.s. claims iraq and afghanistan are for security but will not secure their own southern boarder?No wonder they laugh at us.

[AWPrime]

They really love cheap labor.

[DEAD ZONE]

Confirming the worst fears of those who oppose President Bush's plans to change immigration laws, U.S. Border Patrol officials report a 15 percent increase in the use of fraudulent documents at the world's busiest land border crossing.

Immigration-reform groups point to the finding at the San Ysidro border crossing with alarm – suggesting that putting what some see as an amnesty program on the table represents an invitation for more illegal immigration.

The alarming increase in illegal migration prompted this editorial reaction from the San Diego Union-Tribune: "It has been nearly three weeks since President Bush proposed 'temporary' legal status for millions of illegal immigrants residing in the United States. Already, San Diego is starting to see the unintended consequences at the San Ysidro port of entry."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36831

[Ateo]

Bush just has that magic touch.

[w1che]

Did you hear the plan the Democrats have come up with now? Under their plan they all get a free pass..

I think we covered that on another thread not very long ago and I ask you DZ what you would do with the 8 to 12 million wetbacks Clinton let into this country. As I recall you didn't have a good one????

[DEAD ZONE]

Originally posted by w1che
Did you hear the plan the Democrats have come up with now? Under their play they all get a free pass..

I think we covered that on another thread not very long ago and I ask you DZ what you would do with the 8 to 12 million wetbacks Clinton let into this country. As I recall you didn't have a good one???? I recall you diverting the thread issue as you try again.

w1che says;
Someday if we ever get conservative judges in power on the high court & they start making up their own constitution while making law from the bench.. You libs will be singing another tune.. That's why we the people at some point soon must demand that judge's stick to what the laws say & not what they want it to say. Otherwise we are not a nation of laws but a nation of whatever a judge says on any given day..


If you dont want to enforce the laws, stop whinning when the left want to trash the constitution and the law. You have not a leg to stand on. Frankly there is no price to high to pay to secure the border and you know it.

Instead you answer a question with a question.:smash

p.s. good as defined by YOU? No I would not.Who would.:lol

[DEAD ZONE]

Is this a part of the plane to tear downboarders?http://www.townhall.com/columnists/...j20040128.shtml
should listen to the leader of Hizballah.

"Let the entire world hear me," said Sheik Hassan Nasrallah on Sept. 27, 2002. "Our hostility to the Great Satan is absolute."

There's good reason to take this sheik seriously. In 1983, his Iranian-backed Lebanese terrorist group attacked the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, killing 241 Americans.

"Regardless of how the world has changed after 11 September," Nasrallah said that day, "Death to America will remain our reverberating and powerful slogan: Death to America!"

May 3, 2003. FBI agents searched the Dearborn, Mich., residence of Mahmoud Kourani, a 32-year-old illegal alien from Lebanon.

Kourani pleaded guilty to harboring an illegal alien. A judge sentenced him to six months. On Jan. 15, a second indictment was unsealed, charging Kourani with conspiracy to provide material support to Hizballah.

"Kourani was a member, fighter, recruiter and fundraiser for Hizballah," said the indictment. "Operating at first from Lebanon and later in the United States, Kourani was a dedicated member of Hizballah who received specialized training in radical Shiite fundamentalism, weaponry, spy craft, and counterintelligence in Lebanon and Iran."

"Kourani," Chadwell added in his statement, "is charged with conspiring with individuals at the highest levels of the terrorist organization, including one of his brothers who is the Hizballah chief of military security for southern Lebanon."

Kourani got to America, the prosecutors allege, with the help of a Mexican official."On approximately Feb. 4, 2001, Kourani surreptitiously entered the United States by sneaking across the U.S./Mexico border in the trunk of a car," wrote Chadwell. "He reached Mexico by paying $3,000 used to bribe an official in the Mexican Consulate in Beirut, Lebanon, to give him a Mexican visa."

Do prosecutors believe that official was Imelda Ortiz Abdala, the one-time Mexican consul in Beirut who was arrested by Mexico in November, according to the Associated Press, "on charges of helping a smuggling ring move Arab migrants into the United States from Mexico"? "They are not sure if that is the person that received the money," said Sandy Palazzolo, a spokeswoman for U.S. Attorney Jeffrey G. Collins of Detroit. "They have information that she worked there during this time frame, but they don't know if that is in fact the person that he did bribe."
In a sentencing memorandum in Kourani's alien-harboring case, Chadwell told the court Kourani's "offense of conviction was part of a continuing scheme to bring illegal aliens to the United States from Lebanon through Mexico......"

"He denies all that," said Ayad. Kourani also contests the government's assertion that he bought a Mexican visa for $3,000 in Beirut. "My client told me specifically," said Ayad, "that he got it legitimately through the Mexican consulate."

[w1che]

DZ I'm asking you to think for yourself for a change. I agree with you 100% that the borders should be secured but you see that wasn't the question I ask. The question I ask was plain & simple.. "What would you do with the 8 to 12 million that are already in this country?" If you don't understand the question now let me know & I will keep rephrasing it until you do..

Laws can only be enforced if you don't have to many people breaking any one law. Think about speeders for example. What do they catch? One or two out of a hundred?

[DEAD ZONE]

Originally posted by w1che
DZ I'm asking you to think for yourself for a change. I agree with you 100% that the borders should be secured but you see that wasn't the question I ask. The question I ask was plain & simple.. "What would you do with the 8 to 12 million that are already in this country?" If you don't understand the question now let me know & I will keep rephrasing it until you do..

Laws can only be enforced if you don't have to many people breaking any one law. Think about speeders for example. What do they catch? One or two out of a hundred? i already told you and you scoufed at the cost. That was in my answer here also and since you cant see it may I sugest you open your own eyes and think when you read.
I understand the diversionary question that was already answered. Wrong on part two. These are not citizens and you better start enforcing them .

[sinecure]

I don't know, DZ, but it seems that W1che is AGREEING with you that something must be done... he's simply asking what would you propose we do with all those illegals that are ALREADY HERE?

I'd like to know what you propose as well... You've scattered a whole HEAP of links through various threads that keep stating and re-stating the problem... now what do YOU think we ought to DO about it?

Wake up and smell the refried beans... :lol :lol :wave

[w1che]

DZ I'm sorry if I missed your answer to my question.. Lets start over.. I agree with you 100% that something must be done to control our borders so lets take that off the table for now..

My question again is.. What would YOU do about the 8 to 12 million (Depending on who is talking) illegals in America already? Could you make your answer in bold letters so I won't miss it again? Thanks..

[DEAD ZONE]

Originally posted by w1che
DZ I'm asking you to think for yourself for a change. I agree with you 100% that the borders should be secured but you see that wasn't the question I ask. The question I ask was plain & simple.. "What would you do with the 8 to 12 million that are already in this country?" If you don't understand the question now let me know & I will keep rephrasing it until you do..

Laws can only be enforced if you don't have to many people breaking any one law. Think about speeders for example. What do they catch? One or two out of a hundred? How many times do I have to answer this question? You can enforce them when its non citizens that are the law breakers.Deport them .No cost is too high to secure the border.3000 dead New Yorkers will testify to that.If Bush can give 5 00 billion to give away drug plans he can sure as heck spen what it takes to secure the borders. How many times are you going to ignore your hypocrisy?

w1che says;
Someday if we ever get conservative judges in power on the high court & they start making up their own constitution while making law from the bench. You libs will be singing another tune.. That's why we the people at some point soon must demand that judge's stick to what the laws say & not what they want it to say. Otherwise we are not a nation of laws but a nation of whatever a judge says on any given day..


If you don’t want to enforce the laws, stop whining when the left want to trash the constitution and the law. You have not a leg to stand on. Frankly there is no price to high to pay to secure the border and you know it.

Instead you answer a question with a question.

p.s. Now you will go to your tricky: give me a plan bit.:question

[w1che]

Quote from DZ.. You can enforce them when its non citizens that are the law breakers.Deport them
>>>>>>
Well I have to say I like that idea.. Now lets take the low number of 8 million.. break it down.. Lets say 2 million out of that 8 million have been here for 5 years or more and have a family here with 200,000 American born kids Ok..

Now we must remember we don't know where 2 or 3 million of these people are.. You know in round numbers.. Each person must have a hearing before they can be deported. Are you with me so far?

I hope so.. Ok my next questions.. If we can't deport the 200,000 American kids.. What would you do with them?

How long do you think it would take just to round up those 2 million people with familys, get a judge to take their American kids away from them, find homes for all those kids & transport their parents home? Round numbers will do..

Ok next. How long do you think it would take to FIND the other 6 million, give each and everyone a place to stay while they await their hearing, then after the hearing transport them home?

We won't even get into the cost, man power needed, time for appeals ect. ect. right now.. but you need to remember the liberals will be fighting you every step of the way.. Help me out here..

[DEAD ZONE]

I am awre of the numbers w1. You better start some where. Just saying there are too many is a copout. Its the same excuse that has kead to all these amnesties.

I dont care if it takes 2 life times. Secure the border and get started. When they are found, nail them. You dont need INS squads running around like dog catchers hunting them, they will turn up sooner or later. They have to conduct business and they will be caught.

[w1che]

So DZ that's your answer? I hope other people read this & see your answer to a very complex problem.. They will then see who took a copout..

[DustyBottoms]

Here is my excellent evaluation of the entire situation...

1. Give the border patrol the support it deserves and the help it needs to secure the border(s).

2. I will be needing some assistance on this step. :lol

3. See #2

[Ateo]

The best thing to do when faced with a difficult problem like this--where our very security is at stake--is to err on the side of those who seek to destroy us? And I thought I was unpatriotic.

[w1che]

Picture the headlines in the New York Times and other liberal rag sheets, news stations and other news outlets if we started rounding up 8 million people, putting them in camps until they get a hearing, then shipping them off to someother country.. It ain't going to happen no matter who is in the White House.. We made this problem years ago by letting these people in before we had a worker program set up..

[aclu14]

Like it or not, Wunch, but the NY Times is more or less the national record sheet, not a mere "liberal rag sheet." The WSJ or the Washington Times or whatever conservative rag sheet you get your brain prints from just isn't.

[DEAD ZONE]

Originally posted by w1che
So DZ that's your answer? I hope other people read this & see your answer to a very complex problem.. They will then see who took a copout.. No they will see that w1 wants instant answeres to those same complex questions. When he does not get one he just throws his hands up and surrenders.
Are all kids born here automatic citizens?

besides, is it not YOU that keps telling aclu and tig that the answers just are not that simple ? seems to be when you want them to be.

[w1che]

Quote from DZ...Are all kids born here automatic citizens?
>>>>>>>>>>>

Answer.... Yes

[DustyBottoms]

Originally posted by w1che
Quote from DZ...Are all kids born here automatic citizens?
>>>>>>>>>>>

Answer.... Yes

Absolutely. A loophole that is used frequently by citizens of (few) other nations to "legally" get established in the USA.

I (reluctantly) accept this part of our constitution as unchangeable. Word for word - we must not alter or re-interpret the original intent of our fore-fathers.

I do believe the original intent was to also prevent illegal immigration. :smash

[sinecure]

There's an emergency medical clinic in Dulzura, CA... just across the US/Mexico border.

Any day of the week, you can see an encampment of pregnant-and-about-to-deliver Mexican women on the Mexican side of the border.

They wait untiol the contractions indicate that birth is imminent [there's a good use for that word, Tig :p ] and then they dash across and enter the clinic. California law prohibits the clinic from turning them away. As soon as the baby is born the parents are then parents of a US CITIZEN, and, as such, can't be deported by the usual INS expedient means.

The Border Patrol's job is like shovelling water against the tide.

:mad

[Ateo]

Originally posted by DustyBottoms
I (reluctantly) accept this part of our constitution as unchangeable. Word for word - we must not alter or re-interpret the original intent of our fore-fathers. Funny how people can pick and choose which parts of the Constitution are unchangeable and which aren't, depending on what ideology dictates

[w1che]

The Constitution was made to be changed Tigger but the right way.. NOT by Liberal judges.. What we have with your Liberal Judges is a Constitutional convention in session all the time..

I agree Sin.. Now how are we going to get those deadheads in Washington to close our damn borders? It seems all they see is votes streaming across.. Don't know... :mad :smash

[AWPrime]

Originally posted by sinecure
There's an emergency medical clinic in Dulzura, CA... just across the US/Mexico border.

Any day of the week, you can see an encampment of pregnant-and-about-to-deliver Mexican women on the Mexican side of the border.

They wait untiol the contractions indicate that birth is imminent [there's a good use for that word, Tig :p ] and then they dash across and enter the clinic. California law prohibits the clinic from turning them away. As soon as the baby is born the parents are then parents of a US CITIZEN, and, as such, can't be deported by the usual INS expedient means.

The Border Patrol's job is like shovelling water against the tide.

:mad


I would say: use the clinic as target practice

or

make it illegal for clinics to be in .... miles of the border.

[DustyBottoms]

Originally posted by AWPrime



I would say: use the clinic as target practice

or

make it illegal for clinics to be in .... miles of the border.

I must do this... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[DEAD ZONE]

Originally posted by w1che
Quote from DZ...Are all kids born here automatic citizens?
>>>>>>>>>>>

Answer.... Yes give them a choice. go back with parents or stay here on their own. far fewer to milk the government tit that way and change the loop hole.We better start somewhere.Use the system aginst them just like they used it

[w1che]

Quote from DZ.. give them a choice. go back with parents or stay here on their own.
>>>>>>>>

DZ get real.. Your going to ask a 5 or 10 year old if they want to stay in America without their Mom & Dad. What are you going to do put the kids that stay to work..:lol God man get a grip.. :lol

[DEAD ZONE]

Originally posted by w1che
Quote from DZ.. give them a choice. go back with parents or stay here on their own.
>>>>>>>>

DZ get real.. Your going to ask a 5 or 10 year old if they want to stay in America without their Mom & Dad. What are you going to do put the kids that stay to work..:lol God man get a grip.. :lol same thing we do to other kids that have no parent caring for them.Do we putthem to work....no , we just suck them into a sink dont we.