USA not interfering in Israel/Palestine - conflict

[Sjax]

During the last couple of days, leaders from all over the world have been critizising USA for not trying to stop the middleeast conflict.
Is this fair? Is the US morally obligated to try to stop their ally Israels violence. Can the US be blamed for the crimes committed by Israel?
Your thoughts please.

[ogb]

All problems cannot be solved by a third nation interfering. Look at the Kosovo conflict, it would already be over without the NATO.
In the middleeast I cannot understand both of them. Maybe it would be good if the USA took control, but I am afraid they would take too much advantage for Israel.

[Ada_Doom]

I find it good that they HAVEN'T interfered. Like ogb says, the States are too pro-Israel to negotiate fairly (don't get me started on Israel!). And to be fair, everyone is usually moaning about the US for sticking their noses in where they aren't wanted (Korea, Vienam, Kuwait, Northern Ireland etc etc), so now that they are leaving well enough alone, we should be pleased.

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Heaven is where the police are English, the cars are German, the chefs are French, the lovers are Italian and everything is organised by the Swiss. Hell is where the chefs are English, the police are German, the cars are Spanish, the lovers are Swiss and everything is organised by the Italians.
The man is a God (http://www.jpwsfc.org)

[CBranski]

It seems strange to me as an American that we just can't seem to do anything right foreign policy-wise! Either folks want us to pull out or want us to go charging in.

Needless to say, I too am quite glad that the US is staying out of this one-not only are we too influenced by the pro-Isreal lobby (as noted by ogb), but one must realise that every major power since the Roman Empire has tried to stabilize that region with no success.

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Jennifer Lopez for Mayor

[Serendipity]

As long as those weapons the Israelis use have "Made in the Good Ol' US of A" stamped on the side, I don't think America wants this conflict to come to too abrupt an end... Am I being too cynical? Thre UK sells stacks of stuff to Israel too. Like Ada, don't get me started!

[cleoeo]

Actually, Israel gets huge sums of money directly from the U.S. in foreign aid and from sympathetic U.S. citizens. Their economy is dependent on the flow of cash from the U.S. If they're buying U.S. arms it's with U.S. dollars.

In my opinion, an ideal representative democracy should reflect the beliefs of its people, and due to the fact that most Americans aren't really interested in this conflict, neither should the government, but that's just my thought on the matter.

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

[Serendipity]

Isn't the State of Israel (as a Jewish nation) a Western creation, though? With a lot of US involvement in its inception? In which case the US has an obligaition not to abdicate responsibility. Oh yeah, the Brits were involved in all that too...

Hmmm. Is some kind of pattern emerging here?

[amr]

The essential problem with the Middle East, as in former Yugoslavia, is that none of the ethnic/religious groups like each other and have been fighting for centuries.

Any peace that does not come from within the area itself will only be the peace of the gun. Once the holder of the gun falls (as in the former Soviet Union), all the factions will come out with plow shares beaten into swords (as in the former Yugoslavia).

If they want the US to act as a facilitaror or to provide an open forum, that is acceptable. But the US should not provide money or military support.

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I like to con people and I like to insult people. If you combine "con" and "insult" you get "consult" ...

May I consult you?

[Ada_Doom]

I just find it incredibly unfair, that the Palestinians (who were, after all living there quite happily until the West decided to make a Jewish homeland there) are branded as terrorists, but the Israeli's are legitimately defending their country (by building all over the small parts of Palestine that the Palestinians are still allowed to live in, and flattening anything that's left if the Palestinians object). I know I wasn't going to start, and I know that is a very simplistic veiw, and that no-one is completely blameless, but it's what I think.

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Heaven is where the police are English, the cars are German, the chefs are French, the lovers are Italian and everything is organised by the Swiss. Hell is where the chefs are English, the police are German, the cars are Spanish, the lovers are Swiss and everything is organised by the Italians.
The man is a God (http://www.jpwsfc.org)

[ogb]

On the other hand the Palestinians had centuries to create their own state and suddenly they realise they want one. That Isreal is defending the country is not surprising. What would you do if someone wants to live in your flat? Would you try to defend or move? What the Palestinians are doing is nothing but terrorism with Arafat on top as being a mass murderer. On the other hand Israel is not much better.

[Serendipity]

Agreed - both the Israelis and the Palestinians need to have their heads knocked together. While Sharon and Arafat are in control, and since neither of them seem to want any kind of peaceful settlement, I don't see any end to the killing, and the international community should do all it can to stop it. With every strike, no matter whether it's by an Israeli gunship or a Palestinian suicide bomber, the conflict is prolonged and differences are deepened.

It's still a very profitable war for the arms suppliers, though, and their role should be examined too. Oh dear, does that mean the US, the UK, and whoever else?

[ogb]

It is the best example for "an eye for an eye" politics. It started with one attack, the reaction was a retaliatory measure. The others made a retaliatory measure for the retaliatory measure and so on... It lasts until everything is destroyed because both parties are narrowminded. I can't believe how some of us prefer this kind of ideology in other forums. If this is not deterent enough, then what else has to happen???

[Serendipity]

I'm with you, Ogb. Remember the "Mutually Assured Destruction" of the Cold War? Better known as MAD...

[Sjax]

Ogb you are right about the palestinian people not wanting to create a state before Israel came. But you must consider that they didnt really need a state back then, because the could live freely and have their religion in peace without.
This is no longer possible because thee territory is jewish now.

Reminds me of the situation faced by Native Americans in the 1800s. Europeans started moving in from the little stretch of land on the east coast of the present day US, most of which was taken from the Natives through trickery and backstabbing, and began to move further into "Indian" territory. Compared to modern times, the natives are about like the Palestinians, and white settlers resemble the Israelis. My thoughts at least.

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

Well as of this moment we don't know who was responsible for the attack in New York and Washington, but I for one have a tendency to look at Palestine for blame. Of course it could turn out to be multiples of other organizations, but I am definately leaning towards Palestine. Whoever it turns out to be, we already know of many of the countries who sponsor such attacks (ie. Libya and Algeria), and even though they deal out death to persons through terrorist attacks, the US merely places trade embargos on the countires aforementioned. I'm not calling for an all - out war, but I'm not calling for another Vietnam...merely a show of force such as the missle attack on some of the known terrorist hideouts in Afganistan a couple years ago.

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

[Ash]

They ***** when we don't do anything to help, they ***** when when we "stick our noses in their business", and they beg for our help. It's a lose-lose situation....we should just let them kill each other and then we won't have to worrie about it at all.

[Idnew]

I'm for that Ash but whoever did this awful thing didn't want to leave it in their own country. I really hate the thought of any killing of their innoncents but they delibrately waited until our buildings were full of innocent people instead of at night or a Sunday.

[bi-blonde]

I say just let them kill eachother off. The US can just sit back and watch.

[Serendipity]

Originally posted by bi-blonde:
I say just let them kill each other off. The US can just sit back and watch.

An even better idea would be if the US sold them weapons so that they can do the job better and the US makes a tidy profit out of it. Oh! What's that? The US are already selling them weapons?

That's a really caring attitude, Bi-blonde. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif America has some responsibility in this, acknowledging the fact would be appreciated.

[bi-blonde]

I just don't see why it should be our concern. We have enough problems in our own country that we have a hard time dealing with. I think that the we should take care of ourselves and resolve our issues before we start lending hands out to everyone else.

[Serendipity]

Camp David Accords (http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00ie0)

UN Security Council Resolution 242 (http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00p40)

1945 Letter from President Roosevelt to the King of Palestine (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/decade/decad161.htm)

Avalon Project at the Yale Law School, for further info (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/mideast.htm)

During the last couple of days, leaders from all over the world have been critizising USA for not trying to stop the middleeast conflict.
Is this fair?
Yes!



Is the US morally obligated to try to stop their ally Israels violence. Can the US be blamed for the crimes committed by Israel?
Israel and their comrades are the cause and trigger for all evil all over the world and for all of the war- and terrorist-problems; not just in the US and not just today.
If the US deny this fact no one should be surprised by noticing more and more counterattacks.
Sick George sends his bombs and troops about 35 degrees too far east. He must redirect them and bomb there really hard. After a well done job and putting their comrades down everything would become fine. Definately!

Hi, people! I esteemed this forum and was surprised, you at all do not know the Israeli reality, but make serious conclusions.
http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif
If who knows Russian I ask to myself in the visitors on http:// narodisrael.org/forum

Hi, people! I esteemed this forum and was surprised, you at all do not know the Israeli reality, but make serious conclusions.
http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif
If who knows Russian I ask to myself in the visitors on http:// narodisrael.org/forum

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by Jeff
Whoever it turns out to be, we already know of many of the countries who sponsor such attacks (ie. Libya and Algeria)

May I remind you, Jeff, that the Algerian government is trying to fight terrorism from islamist rebels? However unsuccessfull the fight may sometimes seen, Algeria fights terrorism, instead of supporting it.

[Dizbuster]

you really had to dig to find something to argue with someone about.

All you had to do was ask!:p :eek: :rolleyes: :D :rolleyes: :eek:

[Phreakmeister]

Not trying to argue here, just trying to make a little correction to what Jeff said, that's all. Won't deny that states like Libya, Syria and Iraq sponsor terrorism. Don't condone terrorism either. Far from it.