Enron

[cleoeo]

The seventh biggest corporation on the NYSE has filed bakruptcy in the wake of a huge accounting scandal. It turns out this corporation buys and sells energy. They don't produce anything at all; not cars or electricity or can openers or ANYTHING.
Well, apparently they also buy and sell politicians. Hey California, ever wonder where all that money went during your energy shortage a couple summers ago?

[Serendipity]

Apparently the financial services firm Arthur Anderson are the accountants in question. They also served as consultants to Enron. The wisdom of this arrangement is highly dubious (should that be "Dubyous"? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) since the accountancy wing of A.A. is going to make sure that the advice the consultancy wing looks good, even if it involves cooking the books.

Meanwhile Enron had those policy advisors and all that and it's a bloody stupid mess. I imagine Bush is rather thankful that he has a little war on the other side of the world to deal with.

[cleoeo]

One reason this house of cards got so enormous is that people did not follow the age old advice to "invest in things you know about". Enron was a great big con game, and investers couldn't wait to get in on it. None of them had a clue what they were investing in. Yesterday some guy on the radio was wailing that he lost $400,000 when Enron colapsed. He never had any $400,000 - what he had was 5000 shares of Enron stock that was at one time trading at $80 a share. If he'd had 400,000 DOLLARS he wouldn't be on the radio wailing about Enron.

[Phreakmeister]

How sickening:
The big bosses ran away with ALL the money Enron possessed. The workers, those who made Enron once great, got nothing. Even their pension fund has been stolen by the bosses.
Those who ruined the company are now stealing from those who made it great.

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Okay Scotty, very funny, now beam up my clothes

[cleoeo]

It's revolting.
The Enron Board Of Directors was a very impressive group of retired economics professors, former cabinet ministers, etc. They got paid $60,000 - $100,000 per year to serve on the Board and lend their prestigious names to the corporation. They did NOTHING to help guide or oversee the company; just cashed the checks and puffed around the country clubs like important bigshots while the CEO's and accountants robbed the investors blind.

And while I'm at it, please explain how contributing millions of dollars to politicians without expecting or receiving any special considerations is a good use of company money?

[Phreakmeister]

I personally think that the hot shots of Enron should be tortured into inhumane extremes. Just to make them feel what they did. To make them feel how their greed put millions of people into downright poverty.

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Do you believe in death after life?

[Phreakmeister]

Well, the news about the Enronic greed keeps on coming in:
While the Enron-staff told the employees not to sell their Enron-stocks, the staff gave itself so-called retention bonuses, varying in value from $5000 to $1 million.........
They enriched themselves over the backs of those who once made the company great. The employees have nothing left, no job, no pension, nothing. The staff sucked the very last few dimes and nickles out of the company....................

These a$$hole$ should be hung at the highest tree available.

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Do you believe in death after life?

[MacReady]

Kennth Lay is truely con man, I hope he goes in prison and be someone's ***** while his wife whines that she live in poor.

[The Horseman]

Just wondering - have any of you people looked up what capitalism is actually about recently? These people are meant to make money and value that above all else- it's the entire point of the system for Christ's sake! After all, didn't Coolige say 'business of America is business'? Not that I agree with what they did or anything, it's just that I can't see why you're all so suprised about it - the people with the money (and by extension the power) always **** the little guy - that's how it's always been, and how it always will be

[Phreakmeister]

Yes, I expected it, don't worry about it. But does that make what they did any less?
We're talking about what they did, not the (un)expectedness of it.

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Do you believe in death after life?

[The Horseman]

Well, yeah, I have to agree with you(To be honest, I was in a pretty bad mood when I wrote what I wrote earlier on). However, I think my point still stands. I seriously believe that this sort of thing has been happening for years, and the only way that Enron was unusual is that they just happened to be caught, and even then by highly remarkable circumstances. And you have to admit that the only reason why this discussion is happening in the first place is that you're all shocked at the behaviour of the people. Hell, so am I. But we have to put this in context - it was normal operating procedure, and Enron were just the ones who weren't that lucky, the ones, as I said, who were caught. All I'm saying to you guys is don't be that suprised and shocked - people don't become rich usually by being totally moral human beings. The directors and so on at Enron had power, and I think we all know the old saying about what that does

[Phreakmeister]

True. I wouldn't be surprised if it would have happened more. I would be shocked, but not shocked of amazement, but shocked of what happened.
The first place in which I would expect it, is the oil industry. 8 people in the current US administration are "children" of the oil industry, including George W. Bush himself, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Condoleezza Rice. So not the least of people.

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Do you believe in death after life?

[The Horseman]

Well, the only thing that I can say to you, as a non-American, and please don't take any offence from this, is do something about it. The soft money loophole has been exploited for years. So the only thing which will stop more topics like this from being started is if Congress is lobbied so that nothing like this happens again (for example, we're thinking about state funding for the parties in our parliament, so that no companies will be able to gain favour by buying it).

[Phreakmeister]

Well, that's kinda hard for me, coz u live closer to the US than I do. I'm a born, raised and registered Dutchy.

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Do you believe in death after life?

[The Horseman]

Fair enough (sort of assumed for no reason that you were American - don't know why)

[cleoeo]

You've got it wrong. Enron went belly-up precisly because they did NOT follow the guidelines for running a successful, profitable business. They ran a con game. You can only do that for so long in a capitalist economy before you collapse.
You are correct that the big money can sway voters to make very poor choices. I can't deny that we have a real boob in the White House, and that he's there because he has the backing of the monied interests. I don't think he's a bad person; just kinda dumb, eager to please Daddy and his friends, and no backbone of his own whatsoever.

The only problem with government funding of election campaigns is this:

Incumbents have a MUCH more likely chance of re-election (such as in the US Congress, incumbents are re-elected roughly 80% of the time). If the government gave each candidate the same amount of funds for re-election, the incumbent would stay in office for even longer than they already do.

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

[weldordave]

Oh, great! An election tax! I wonder how Joe Lunchbox and Jane Lunchbox will be screwed by this if it ever comes about.

[cleoeo]

Well taken, Welderdave. However, it's likely that the citizens are getting screwed worse now with unlimited "soft money" available to candidates who support a platform that the money groups want. I'm a capitalist and a free speach advocate. It's scary when bogus outfits like Enron can buy legislation to deregulate their industry so they can fleece the public. They do not contribute to the Nation's well-being at all. They shake my confidence in the entire economic and political system of free enterprise and free elections.

[The Horseman]

OK, you've got me. I have no proof that Enron wasn't just a one of, merely my belief that no company can really look temptation like that in the eye and say 'no'. I mean, before all the signs of bankruptcy began floating to the surface, who would have said that it was doing what it was doing.
Bush - well, I don't know. I can't make the man out. I heard that he has an MBA from Harvard. Well, idiots don't get that. But with his current record, I can't see how he can be anything but.

[cleoeo]

He's an MBA from Yale. George Sr. is an Alumnus of Yale, Skull And Bones member, and a millionare. George Jr. could have been an imbecile and been accepted. And they were hardly going to flunk him.
George Jr. majored in cocaine and booze in college. To his credit (and his wife's), George Jr. cleaned up his act and now he is the President of the United States of America.

[MacReady]

When will trail begin? so I want Kennth Lays to get convicted and sent to prison for fraud and be someone else's *****

[The Horseman]

You won't get most of the Kenneth Lays being convicted. Congress can't convict them, and cover their own collective backs. There'll be a deal, there always is.

[cleoeo]

The Justice Department has indicted Arthur Anderson Accounting for shredding thousands of pounds of paper documents and deleting hundreds of computer files related to Enron in an effort to cover up their involvment in the scam. Arthur Anderson's lawyers are crying foul, saying the indictment will destroy clients' confidence in the firm. Well duh.

[Enforcer]

I don't think they would have been able to pull that kind of a stunt here in the netherlands...



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Phoenixes RULE!
Come to Enforcer's pizza shack!

Respect my authority!BEEFCAKE!

[Phreakmeister]

No, but we got the construction companies bribing the civil service.....
Which is the lesser of two evils?

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Do you believe in death after life?

[Enforcer]

depends...I don't know the story, what'sm that about?

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Phoenixes RULE!
Come to Enforcer's pizza shack!

Respect my authority!BEEFCAKE!

[Phreakmeister]

You haven't been watching the news lately????
Almost every single Dutch construction company has been bribing civil servants (ambtenaren) for the last twenty-odd years to get the important orders.

(BTW, isn't it a bit weird, two Dutch people talking English to each other?)

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Do you believe in death after life?