Cannabis

My mate reckons that the cannabis laws came about not because the drug was considered dangerous, but to protect the clothing industry. You see hemp is far cheaper to make than cloth, it lasts longer than most materials of the time, is a excellent source of nutrition and can be used to make paper. The big boys of the time didn’t want to roll over so lobbied the government to outlaw it completely.


Anyone know anything about this?


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We're the Sweeny, son and we haven't had any dinner. You kept us waiting. So unless you want a kicking you'll tell us where those photographs are.

[paulgro]

Don't know anything about it, but it might make a good argument.

[ACouncilSound]

yes, that is part of the reason it was outlawed.DuPont introduced nylon fiber that same year (1937) and was behind the "anti-drug" propaganda as well, because by illimating hemp, it would make it quite easy to market his synthetic fiber. Up till then, hemp was the strongest fiber known. Another reason was race. Not many white people had even heard of marijuana in 1937, but it was quite well known by the African-American jazz musicians and the Mexican immagrant farmers. Even the name Marijuana is only the Mexican term for the weed. Everyone knows the proper Latin name is Cannabis Sativa. The government would state that the black men would try to turn white women on by slipping pot into their tea or coffee, and it would turn law abiding people into rapists and murderers. Can you belive it?!?!?!?!? If you can find it, check out the old propaganda movie " Reefer Madness"

[Serendipity]

Ah, the killer weed! Welcome, ACouncilSound (bloody odd name, that), and thanks for an informative post. What gets me is that some people still wheel out the same dated argument as though it's valid. If you don't want stoned people around you then that's fine, but it's not a valid argument to ban the substance (eg I don't want drunk people around me, but I'd fight for their right to have a drink). Decriminalisation of cannabis in parts of Holland led to a drop in its use among young Dutch people (but an increase in smokey tourists), because it was legal, ergo safe, ergo no fun. The prohibitionists send out all the wrong messages. Bla. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Lis]

Welcome to the board ACouncilSound http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif
Well geeez the world is a silly silly place (silly having to be said as swearng isn't really smiled upon *grinz*)....I join Dipy in his bla http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Idnew]

http://www.zing.com/picture/p508fe7ff50840a622828426d48285826/ff983c54.gif ACouncilSound....would love for you to go over to the EE forum and look for the topic Nicks and post there about your name.

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[Serendipity]

Go here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story/0,3604,426652,00.html

[ACouncilSound]

Wow, I can only hope things can head that direction over here. I'm afraid people over here still have to many ridiculous notions about it.

[Serendipity]

The UK's still backwards too. Actually, we're not, most people wouldn't mind a sensible debate and there's plenty of sympathy for genuine medicinal users, a woman MS sufferer won her case in our local court recently. The lawmakers still live in the 19th century, however.

[Serendipity]

Does anyone feel, as I do, that one problem with debating drugs (not just cannabis) is that, in any such debate those who do drugs are disqualified from taking part because they have an emotional interest, whereas those who've never done drugs are disqualified from taking part because they don't know what they're talking about?

[paulgro]

I'll agree with you on that, Dippy. I always wonder where the movie writers come from. You can tell they're not users!

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

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[Idnew]

I feel while I have never done drugs of any kind that I can state my opinion because I've been around drug users and see what it has done or is doing to them. I lost one of my dearest friends when she killed herself after getting hooked on cocaine. She started on pot. I still cry over her and it's been probably 15 yr.

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[Idnew]

I feel while I have never done drugs of any kind that I can state my opinion because I've been around drug users and see what it has done or is doing to them. I lost one of my dearest friends when she killed herself after getting hooked on cocaine. She started on pot. I still cry over her and it's been probably 15 yr.

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[paulgro]

I think what Dippy is saying and I agree with is people go by media hype and that's what they base their opinion on. If it's on TV or in the papers, it must be true! Well we know that isn't so!!

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

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[~wildangel~]

Sorry about your friend ID, I used to do drugs and It just led me knowere(not cocaine,heroin or use needles<CRINGE>...but other stuff)and I too can tell anyone that it all started with pot!It does start with pot...but then theres some ppl that only smoke pot! It all depends on the person.But I think most ppl that do smoke pot do other things also,maybe just downers but still other things.Like my neighbor for instance smokes pot all the time and when she's not high she takes Somas.Not just one soma but like 5 a day!I dont GET it!


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[ACouncilSound]

One thing that really gets me is people saying pot is a "gateway" drug. It is absoultly not!! It 100% depends on the personality of the user. I've heard stats saying that 95% of heroin users started with pot. That may be true, but turn it around and ask: what percentage of people who have used pot move on to heroin? Probaly less than 10% I would be willing to bet 100% of heroin users also smoke cigarettes, but does that mean cigs lead to heroin? I don't think so. We need to provide more realistic education to children about drugs. Teaching them that pot is just as bad as coke or heroin is distorting the facts, and if a child experiments with pot anyway (which most do at least once)will he then question whether coke is equally as harmless? And then once he gets hooked on coke, he will of course blame pot as the "gateway" drug that got him started. Education and treatment is the key, but too many special intrestes I know will get in the way of anything happening anytime soon in America. Our political system caters to big business more than the peoples vote. Just look at the California voters approving medicinal marijuana a couple years back and then the Supreme Court saying "the voters were misinformed so we're turning over the vote" or something along those lines. AGGGH!!!!!!Just think of the money that Uncle Sam could make by taxing pot like thay do liquer and beer. We could pay off the debt in no time!

[Serendipity]

I know here you're coming from, Council, and I agree with you to a point. However, I'd say from my experience that pot IS a gateway drug, but only because it's illegal, therefore your man is more likely to be able to get other stuff too since he's already on the far side of the law and knows how to run a discreet business. Bring him on the good side of the law and he's no worse than a bartender. The very illegality of pot is what makes it a gateway drug, not anything intrinsic in pot itself. Education is needed: kids start on pot and find that it doesn't kill them, so they think that other illegal drugs are harmless too, if they haven't chosen to educate themselves about drugs.

[LawEn4cer]

Originally posted by Serendipity:
I know here you're coming from, Council, and I agree with you to a point. However, I'd say from my experience that pot IS a gateway drug, but only because it's illegal, therefore your man is more likely to be able to get other stuff too since he's already on the far side of the law and knows how to run a discreet business. Bring him on the good side of the law and he's no worse than a bartender. The very illegality of pot is what makes it a gateway drug, not anything intrinsic in pot itself. Education is needed: kids start on pot and find that it doesn't kill them, so they think that other illegal drugs are harmless too, if they haven't chosen to educate themselves about drugs.

I agree with to a point...hehehe http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif....pot is a gateway drug, but NOT just because it's illegal. There are chemicals in pot that causes you to become addicted. I wrote this huge paper done tons of research...but my mind's a blank to which chemical and what exactly happens so sorry can't ellaborate. Also I think pot can kill you...not directly of course, just like alcohol doesn't directly kill you. Your mind and body is slowly poisoned. It can also inhibit your senses and cause accident's...that's the one beef I have about some people they say "it's not as bad as alcohol"...wrong. There was an accident just a few months ago, where two boys were killed head on by a semi, on the highway, which meant they had crossed three lanes of traffic. Anyways, the accident was grusome, they didn't have the senses and reflexes because they were doing "just pot". I read a story of a boy who "was just on pot" killed his mother with a butcher knife because he thought she was evil...or some sh*t like that.

I do agree with you again that more education is needed to teach children of the effects and consequences. DARE is a good program but why aren't these grusome pictures being painted for these children. Yea they're young, but that's not going to stop the drug dealers, why should it stop law enforcement, parents, schools, etc...?? We also need to reeducate the schools and parents if there's ever to be a hope of this saving out children crap.
And if someone says "let's aim for a 'drug free america'" i will shoot. Until we get rid of alcohol, caffeine, nicoteen, and so on...we'll never be drug free. blah, blah, blah, blah.... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[ACouncilSound]

Anyone who would kill his/her mother because she was evil has something much more serious going on than smoking pot. I'd belive it if it were LSD, but honestly, anyone who smokes pot knows you become peaceful and less likely to freak out. It calms your senses and the only thing on your mind is music and potato chips. Also, many of the cooridation problems that come with being stoned fade as the user becomes more familiar with the effects. You can walk a straight line, you don't slur your speech, etc. I am NOT saying driving while on pot is allright. Driving while under any medication is wrong. But alcohol is a far worse drug. As for the addictive properties of pot, I strongly disagree. I have done research on it as well, and there are many thoughts on it, but proven addictive drugs like heroin, coke, and even nicotine affect the release of dopmine(sp?)In the center of the brain. Dopmine is the brains "reward chemical" and becomes dependant on the raised levels of it in the brain. When the drug fades and dopmine returns to normal levels, the brain suffers a "threshhold shift" where it "thinks" the levels are to low, and thus the cravings begin. Pot on the other hand, dosn't even affect the center of the brain, but the cerebral cortex where the most of the senses are processed. Dopmine levels remain as they were prior to consumption of the drug. To further on this topic, the brain has billions of receptors, all used for certain purposes, and a select number of them appear to be soley for reception of THC. If anyone is in doubt of what I've said here (and I might be off on a couple minor details)go to www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/nc/ncmenu.htm (http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/nc/ncmenu.htm)
In 1972 Nixon commishioned a panel to study the effects of pot on society and in indivudals health, and the board came back basicly saying it should be legalized or at least de-crimanalized. Nixon's responce? He moved it from a class 2 drug (substance with some medical and scientific merrit) to a class 1 narcotic. Right up there with coke and heroin.

[LawEn4cer]

Originally posted by ACouncilSound:
[B]Anyone who would kill his/her mother because she was evil has something much more serious going on than smoking pot. I'd belive it if it were LSD, but honestly, anyone who smokes pot knows you become peaceful and less likely to freak out. It calms your senses and the only thing on your mind is music and potato chips. Also, many of the cooridation problems that come with being stoned fade as the user becomes more familiar with the effects. You can walk a straight line, you don't slur your speech, etc. B]
One--about the story I'm just relaying what I read
Two--marijuana effects everyone differently. It doesn't calm and relax everyone. There are people who become violant, edgy, moody,....
As for the becoming more familar with the effects....I don't work narcotics, so i'm not an expert, and I don't poison my mind with that sh*t....so I wouldn't know, but I would think that if the effects started fading away--isn't that why people begin to use more and I still believe your going to still have some cooridination problems no matter HOW used to ANY drug you get.

Any who.... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/tongue.gif


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"...civility, character, compassion, and courage..." George W. Bush

[This message has been edited by LawEn4cer (edited January 25, 2001).]

[Serendipity]

I'll take your word on the science, Council (you don't mind me calling you that for short?), it fits in with my experience.
Law, I had been smoking pot for years, I gave it and all other illegal drugs up recently because I found it boring and haven't missed it at all in a physical craving sense. I wish the same applied to tobacco, to which I am definitely physically addicted. As for research on drugs, it is too often the case that the result of the research depends on who's paying for it, eg the tobacco lobby has research projects which conclude that cigarettes aren't carcinogenic or whatever. So if a right-wing/fundamentalist/whatever organisation funds research into the effects of cannabis, no prizes for guessing what the conclusion will be.

[ACouncilSound]

In reponce to the tolerance issue of pot:
One might think that if it fades away, then smoke more and get higher, right? And that is true for many things, but not pot. In my youth I smoked pot all day long. From morning till night, and eventually it became like a cigarette. I didn't feel any effects at all. So I stopped. Easy as cake. No cravings, no robbing people for money to buy pot. I just stopped. Then afer a couple months, I started casualy smoking again (I'm a musician, so its always around)and still do to this day. But I do not smoke all day, or even everyday. A couple tokes off some good weed at night (after all important things are done)in front of the TV, and its just like the first time. And if you were to smoke 2 times in one day, it's just a waste, cause the second time just burns you out. Its a reverse tolerance, ergo the exact opposite of how heroin or other hard drugs react in your system. But anybody who has not smoked pot, would not understand this, and that is probably one of the reasons people have such a hard time beliving it is harmless.

[LawEn4cer]

Again, that's your guy's experience. Some people DO get addicted to it and DO get bad responses from it...same goes for the oppisite...some people don't get addicted at all and find it rather "boring" as you put it.
Though I must ask...if not addicted then why the need to smoke one? You want to feel that high....that's addiction. When I tried quiting cigerette's my biggest hitch was needing one when I was stressed. I wanted to feel the relaxation...I was addicted...thank God though I fought it off. no more smelly clothes!! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

This is a debate that will forever go on. Pot users think pot is OK and not as dangerous as alcohol...Whereas non pot users think the exact oppisite. I don't think there is a winning side. BLAH!! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

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"...civility, character, compassion, and courage..." -George W. Bush

[~wildangel~]

I know where ALL of you are coming from!
Pot does relax you and makes you crave potato chips and mostly makes you lethargic and calms your nerves, but thats the way WE feel when WE smoke it...my brother and a few other ppl on the other hand are a bit different in there habit.My brother steals and has robbed houses to feed his addiction, and pot makes him a complete moron!He works at jack in the box and still thinks a "senior discount"is for anyone over 18!Although he would never HURT anyone he has gotten extremely violent just on weed.But thats him, i know ppl that smoke weed constantly and havent a violent bone in there body.My brother has crashed into a pole driving, scraped another pole driving and could very easily kill himself or someone else on the road.He only smokes pot and Is highly addicted to it.
So IMO everyone is totally different,I can drink a 12 pack of beer and hardly be buzzed at all and a friend of mine gets drunk on 3 beers!I just think It's what were used to we can handle (well besides my brother anyway http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif)
Everyone is different!

[Serendipity]

Wild, I get what you're saying, but it is possible to feel the need to be stoned, even permanently stoned, but that's not the same as being addicted to the substance like it is with tobacco, heroin or coke. I did much the same as Council, get stoned all day every day for years. Then I smoked less and became more of a binger, so if I smoked I'd have a little bit and get wasted for the weekend. In the last few years I had access to really top-notch weed, very pure + strong, and I smoked far too much of it. If it were addictive then I'd be a total addict but I gave it up just like that, no problem. I don't regard myself as 'cured' of anything, it's just what I wanted, and if I start again it's not because I'm addicted or relapsing but again, because I feel like it. Your brother may feel a dependency (sorry to be talking about someone you know better than me...), but that's his frame of mind, he has a need to escape, perhaps. He's not addicted to the substance, but maybe his life is more than he can handle...?

[saint]

i think if we make it legal then poeple will be less want to do it.
so make pot legal and put laws on it like tobbaco and alcohal. mean while study it it may have some medicmal use
but there a lot of drugs that need to be outlawed like extasy. but until we make it legal we will never know what it does to everyone.
btw i don't do drugs


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The great mass of people...will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one.

[~wildangel~]

Hi Saint Welcome to dumblaw!!!

Dippy you know you can call my brother a dependant anytime http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif
your right he cannot handle life at all, maybe he FEELS he needs it to handle life!

[Serendipity]

So d'you get my point, Wild? It's not the substance that's addictive, but the escape that it offers. It's moreish rather than addictive (if "moreish" is a word in the US...? I suppose strawberry mousse is moreish too... mmm http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif).

[~wildangel~]

no strawberry mousse is addicting http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif


http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/net2/littleangel.gif

[saint]

mouse period is addicting


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The great mass of people...will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one.

[Serendipity]

Hiya Saint. "Mouse Period" is addicting? You have a strange habit there my friend... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

[ACouncilSound]

Cool Ranch Doritos have no nutritional value whatsoever, so why do people buy them? Are they addicted to the corn chips? No. Coke and Pepsi outsell juice and water, and dehydrate the body as well as having no nutritional value either. So why do people buy that? Just cause you want or like something, dosen't mean it's an addiction. Some people can become DEPENDANT on things, but that is totally different than your body actually NEEDING it to "survive". Heroin users actually get sick. Migraines, vomiting, convulsions, etc. Pot you just stop. Just like deciding you're going to wear sneakers to work everyday instead of sandals.Recently I decided to stop drinking coffee and just drink juice and water. That was the hardest thing for me to quit (coffee) even harder than cigerettes (which I quit 2 years ago), and both of those substances are legal.

[saint]

i work in a store and you can't say that about our store council water out sells coke and pepsi
is water addictive?

[ACouncilSound]

Well, Im glad to hear somewhere people are buying water more than soft drinks. I was basing what I said upon a national survey, that stated that soft drinks outsell water 3 to one, or something like that. And no, water is not addictive, it is of course a necessity for life. But putting water and healthy foods aside, I guess you could say anything else is addictive, otherwise, why would someone want to ingest it? If they have a taste for it, it must have a addictive nature to it, right?

[paulgro]

Aren't we getting a little carried away here? Just because you like something doesn't mean you're addicted to it. People want to put a lable on everything today, addiction seems to be the lable of choice. Addiction means you have to have it not want to have it!

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[wendy66]

Is pot addictive? I think not. Ask most adult cigarette smokers if they wish they never would have picked up that first smoke and the majority will say yes. Ask anyone who ever smoked pot if the wish they had never smoked that first joint, (whether or not they still smoke it) and MOST will probably say no, it wasn't that big of a deal and it hasn't affected their life longterm. I have three kids and I would be more upset if they started smoking tobacco than if I found out that they had gotten high (not that I would be ok w/ it), most people "outgrow" pot, not cigarettes. I'm a smoker ( and I have smoked pot on occasion) and chances are I will face this issue w/ my kids... I hope to GOD they are smarter than I was.

[Code_Monk]

Ok now, how about hearing from someone that has seen both sides of this issue?

Although I have never seen anyone get violent after smoking pot, I have them afterwards. I worked in a prison (actually 2 prisons and one camp) for 6 years. I would guess that about 75% of them were in there because they commited a crime while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. A large majority of the time, it was alcohol. Although probably an equal amount were on methamphetamines. While many of these people started on pot, some had never smoked pot.

Is pot a "gateway" drug to other, stronger drugs?
One may loose their inhibitions while on pot, making you more susceptible to try other drugs. But alcohol can have the same effect.
So my answer is....maybe. It depends on the person.

Some illegal drugs have valid medicinal uses.

Pot is good for cancer sufferers undergoing chemotherapy. It is also good for people that suffer migraines and other maladies.

Heroin also has valid medicinal values. It is a very powerful pain killer. Have you ever had a tooth pulled? Dentist gives you vicodin or codeine. It is basically a diluted heroin (I know its not the same, but the intended effects and the side effects are very similar). And I am not saying heroin should be legalized here either but for some people suffering a terminal and painfull illness, I would advocate it.

I know people that smoke pot on a daily basis. Some smoke it only after work, much like some other person has a beer or a martini after work. Others smoke it several times a day.

I have seen FAR MORE negative effects after high amounts of alcohol than I have from large amounts of pot.
I firmly believe that if pot were to be made legal, this country would be far better off than it is with it illegal.
How well did prohibition on alcohol do? Pot is under a prohibiton right now.

And now, this is not my only experience with pot and other drugs.

I first smoked pot when I was about 12 years old. Did nothing for me. Only smoked it a few times until I was 20 (it was kinda rare where I lived at the time). After that, I smoked daily. I smoked when I first got up in the morning. It was like my cup of coffee (I am not comparing).
I was like that until I was 25. I never robbed anyone, stole anything to pay for my pot. When I was 25, my then future and now current, wife asked me to stop. I did, no problem. Now before you congratulate her on a job well done, she was the one that first got me to try heroin. We did that for about 3 years. We were both very addicted. Kinda hard to quit when you rent an apartment from a heroin dealer. How did we quit? We moved and stayed drunk for a month.

Over the years, I have probably taken **** near every illegal drug known. Pot, LSD, qualudes (sp?), speed, cocaine, all kinds of other pills. I have smoked, snorted, shot up, ingested, ate, had LSD dropped in my eyes, etc.
I never really liked speed though. I prefer to be in a relaxed state.

These days, I am clean and sober since 1988. I can't drink alcohol due to an ulcer. I don't smoke pot. I don't snort heroin, I don't shoot up cocaine. I get my high from programming. Although I do take vicodin due to arthritis in my back and knees (I have tried PT, hypnotisim, acupuncture, holistic, vitamin therapy, etc with short lived or little result).

I have seen both sides of this issue.
I see pot as no more harmful than alcohol.
Pot damages your lungs and brain cells.
Alcohol damages your liver and brain cells.
Pot make you lethargic and takes away ambition (to some extent).
Alcohol is a contributing factor to many auto accidents.

To deal with either effectively, people need to be educated, not imprisioned.

[LawEn4cer]

Holy sh*t Code_Monk...you've been through a lot! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/eek.gif But I'm glad to hear you're sober http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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"Losers always whine about doing their best...winners go home and f*ck the prom queen."

[ACouncilSound]

Monk, you said it better than I think I could have. Prohibition of anything just makes people want it more. Its the "want what you can't have" syndrome.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but people who overindulge in drugs or alcohol do so mostly out of weakness on their part. Most people start with weed because it is usually the easiest thing to find and because most of their friends are smoking it. They move on to other drugs out of curiousity and continue out of weakness. I'm sorry, but you can't blame someone's cocaine habit on marijuana. That is just silly. I have always believed that it should be legalized. I have never known or heard of anyone stealing to get more like people do for other drugs and sometimes alcohol. I did have a friend who would sometimes get riled up after smoking, but I have never known of or heard of anyone committing a crime because they were high.

[paulgro]

Welcome to dumb laws Victoria...

You're 100% right! Too many people talk abou drugs and what they do by the hype they hear on the tube without ever using it...

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industrial hemp IS legal in the uk, the gov is just bollocks

keep it purple
rapier

I must say that cannabis should be legal because there is no reason for it not to be, unless you are dupont. Think about this, cannabis is alot less dangerous or poisonus or harmful than alcohol or tobacco, and it isn't a narcotic. Yet it is illegal and alcohol adn tobacco are legal. Even Cocaine isn't really addictive (yes it is harmful, but isn't that my choice, not yours?). Yet it is illegal, while one of the most addictive substances on earth is perfectly legal. Ahem could somebody please explain this to me?

[~wildangel~]

WElcome to Dumblaws Napolean! Did i spell that right??? Anyhoo, I dont care what anyone does! But if your walking around all blitzed out of your mind wearing Berkenstocks with long hair and a Bob Marley bandana it's worse than an occasionally drink! In my opinion. Pot stones you, beer doesnt do anything unless you drink a whole 6 pack http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

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I think this planet would be alot better if everybody got stoned occasionally. Now I have never done pot and until it is legalized, I do not plan on it (It is just to great a risk) but everybody who I have seen on it has always been more friendly and more fun to be around while high as well as over a period of time after being on it. it's long term side effects are not that bad (killing a few braincells and lung problems, but mind you lung ****age is less than what you get from cigaretts buz most people would only smoke pot once at a time and would only do it occasionally). Now I must say that it is psychologically addictive, just like say chocolate. Caffine is both psychologically and physically addictive, and is a narcotic, yet nobody thinks anything of it. Weed is psychologically addictive (anything that is enjoyable is) but not physically. So I say make Caffine illegal and weed legal!(Sarcasm)

[CBranski]

I have many thoughts on the weed issue, the central one being that I think it should be legal. Many folks o this board may consider this stance surprising considering my right wing leanings, but like with anything else, I like to think I explore this issue with logic, not ideaology.

The way we handle drugs in this country is illogical and frankly bizarre. Children are told in schools that drugs are bad, then are handed Ritalin. (I was prescribed this stuff at age 23, and it felt like what many describe as a cocaine high, and the comedown is just as bad. Needless to say, it nearly ruined my life.) When the little tykes go home, they are bombarded with TV ads that push pills for nearly every malady imaginable, including the laughable "social anxiety disorder." (Read: fear of being rejected by the hottie standing at the bar.) Don't dig deep for confidence, take a pill!

That being said, I realise that we all need to escape every now and again. A few drinks never hurt any one, nor do I beleive that smoking a joint now and again is harmful-I used to smoke the stuff, and I didn't find it harmful or addictive, unlike the cigarette I just lit up. It actually proved at times to be beneficial: I used to be plagued with migrane headaches, and weed proved to be an excellent pain killer.

Parents and others need to look deep at how we use this country's biggest drug, and that is alcohol. Alcohol does different things to different people, and one could argue that booze is far more destructive than weed. I give you the Kennedy family as an example.

OK, that's my rant!

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Jennifer Lopez for Mayor

[Serendipity]

Nice one, CB! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif A common criticism of cannabis is that it is a 'Gateway drug', i.e. that cannabis use leads to use of hard drugs, since both can be obtained on the black market. Experince tells me that that is true, to an extent. What I cannot fathom out is that many people, (politicians, usually) argue that this is a case for stamping down on cannabis. It is surely a case for legalisation of the drug and licensing of its dealers? One thing is certain, whatever the politicians or police do, cannabis use, in the UK at least, is not going to diminish. War on Drugs? Ha!

from what you said CB (ie about having right wing leanings) I can tell that I normally would argue with you (being centrist in that I think that normally right wingers are idiots and so are left wingers I hate extremism) but I must agree with you here.

[~wildangel~]

I am just like right smack dab in the middle..im weird i guess. When im NOT on anything and I feel like being normal i dont like when everyone around me is on anything but when im partying i prefer everyone doing the same thing as me, or whatever they want to do...as long as its weed or drinking anyway. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


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"We cannot build the future for our youth but we can build our youth for the future."

Click here for adorable faces!" (http://fairmayden1.homestead.com/babyface.html)

[Ada_Doom]

I agree with that Wild. I think the main reason I get so annoyed with my mates on weed, is the same as the reason I get annoyed when I am the driver and everyone else is drunk - drunk/stoned behaviour is only funny if you are in the same state. Otherwise it's bloody irritating. I need to get out more http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Heaven is where the police are English, the cars are German, the chefs are French, the lovers are Italian and everything is organised by the Swiss. Hell is where the chefs are English, the police are German, the cars are Spanish, the lovers are Swiss and everything is organised by the Italians.
The man is a God (http://www.jpwsfc.org)

[Serendipity]

I'm with you there Wild, except I'd go a bit firther: at a lot of the parties I go to, there's folks on all kinds of stuff, drink, weed, ecstasy, acid, magic mushrooms - but not heroin, crack, or any of those spooky really dodgy drugs, I don't mix in that screwed-up social strata at all. The point is not what drugs have they taken, but how well do they treat their fellow party-goers and others? Do they behave responsibly - wait 'til they've come down before driving anywhere, etc? Sure, I've met lots of !%!%!%!%!%!%!%s on drugs, but it's not because of the drugs that they're !%!%!%!%!%!%!%s. Anyway, that's off-topic. Sorry.

[~wildangel~]

Yep i know what you mean, both of you, it depends on the person, like if an idiot smokes weed and acts like an idiot he was still an idiot to begin with! If an !%!%!%!%!%!%!% is an !%!%!%!%!%!%!% it certainly doesnt matter what kind of drugs he's on! But my brother does speed and when he comes down he fights people, yells at everyone, its horrible...speed and coke and all those are the ones that DO change people drastically.

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"We cannot build the future for our youth but we can build our youth for the future."

Click here for adorable faces!" (http://fairmayden1.homestead.com/babyface.html)

[Serendipity]

I HATE speed!! I never saw the point, all it does is keep you awake and kills your appetite. And I love sleeping and eating! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif Speed makes you talk a lot of deep and meaningless B/S, too. I've seen good decent folks turned into idiots, shoved into mental institutions, and get into stupid fights because of the effects of speed. I don't like preaching about drugs, but don't do it, kids!

[~wildangel~]

I know what you mean, i used to do it when i was about 17 or 18 and i cant even imagine myself ever doing it again, i used to do it to stay skinny! Sooo stupid of me...

Like you i like to EAT and sleep! Eating is fun http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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"We cannot build the future for our youth but we can build our youth for the future."

Click here for adorable faces!" (http://fairmayden1.homestead.com/babyface.html)

Originally posted by Serendipity:
I'm with you there Wild, except I'd go a bit firther: at a lot of the parties I go to, there's folks on all kinds of stuff, drink, weed, ecstasy, acid, magic mushrooms - but not heroin, crack, or any of those spooky really dodgy drugs, I don't mix in that screwed-up social strata at all. The point is not what drugs have they taken, but how well do they treat their fellow party-goers and others? Do they behave responsibly - wait 'til they've come down before driving anywhere, etc? Sure, I've met lots of !%!%!%!%!%!%!%s on drugs, but it's not because of the drugs that they're !%!%!%!%!%!%!%s. Anyway, that's off-topic. Sorry.


Just to point out, Ecstacy is probably one of the most if not the most dangerous and harmful drugs that exists, DO NOT USE IT. the way it works is that it prevents seritonin reupatake within the brain while causing a surge of seritonin at the same time, the result is a high but the problem is that all those cells that pumped out the seritonin and all those cells that were being blocked well they won't ever produce the same amounts again and without reuptake the amount of seritonin will decrease so that after a series of uses a person looses all ability to experience happyness and any form of a natural high.

[Serendipity]

Well, Napoleon, I've taken E a handful of times and have mixed feelings about it. It's so funny, when you're on it, everyone is good-looking Hollywood-style! You just love everybody! You can dance all night!

My point was not about whether the drugs are dangerous or harmful, but about the behaviour of those who have taken them. I have no problem experiencing happiness without drugs, I don't take anything these days anyway, so no long term damage necessarily ensues from very moderate use.

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Beware The Wrath of Mod!

Mod Squad Poster (http://www.geocities.com/idnew52/Mod_Squad_Poster.htm)

Big tobacco pays off politicians. And the US government pressures other countries when they try to change their laws... the US goverment actually spent 100s of millions of dollars of OUR money to wipe out cannabis plants in Jamaica. They smoke it as part of their religion in Jamaica, and here you and I are giving money to stop that. Hmmm. Anyway, cannabis will soon be legal or decriminalized in Jamaica, Switzerland, UK(in spring), Canada, Portugal, and who knows who else. That's if they don't give in to pressure from our tax money. And we all know about the Netherlands and it's common sense aproach to drugs http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

here's a very good place to read about the history of cannabis laws in America and all the Government lies assosciated with it:
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/whiteb1.htm

it's long, but it's a very good read http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif


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Amount of your yearly tax dollar going towards paying America's drug war: $42 billion

[Serendipity]

Cannabis has had its status changed in the UK recently, from a Class B drug (i.e. possession is an arrestable offence, a fine is the ususal penalty) to a Class C drug (possession is a non-arrestable offence, though the police can confiscate).


Ummm..... http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

[~wildangel~]

Ive never even seen ecstacy...I did hear it's really bad tho:\

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~Wild, the angel of the Mod Squad~
~The MOD Squad~ (http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/serendipity/MSPoster/ModSquad.html)
The Coffee shop (http://pub83.ezboard.com/bcosmiccoffeeshop)
My family... (http://www.geocities.com/jssejmsgrl/Mypage.html)

well as always all drugs don't have that horrid side effects when not used in excess, e included, but my point was that it is one of the worse ones when over used. I am happy to hear about the change in laws over in the UK, but i must ask for a class c drug, is it still illegal to sell?

[Serendipity]

Yeah, I think so. You might be able to get away with cultivation. Recently - before the change in the law - a woman living not far from me was acquitted on a charge of possession because she smokes cannabis to alleviate her MS pains. So there's that defence too. But dealing is probably still frowned upon.

Just like Steve Martin, "I used to smoke marijuana." Personally, I think it is less dangerous than alcohol. I could always drive better stoned than drunk, there is no hangover, and you can't smoke yourself to death. You can definitely drink yourself to death from alcohol poisoning. The only problem is what it would do to your lungs. Marijuana doesn't affect motor skills like alcohol.
As far as being a "gateway" drug, that is not due to the drug itself, but due to our society. We start with caffeine, then move to cigarettes, then alcohol, then marijuana, then to other illegal drugs. Since maijuana is the first illegal drug in the chain, it is dubbed the gateway drug. If we outlawed alcohol, then that would be the gateway drug. It is up to each one of us how far up the ladder we go. Some don't know where to stop, while others can make their own decisions. I never went past marijuana, for the simple fact that you can't smoke yourself to death, but the other stuff scared me. It's been a long, long time since I've smoked pot and I can't because I am subject to drug testing, but sometimes I think it might be nice to relax with a joint.
I am still amazed that in this country, a woman's right to her body allows her to kill her unborn child, but does not allow her to inhale marijuana smoke. There is obviously more than logic at work here.

While it is generally accepted that smoking weed does affect the body in some way, to what degree is the major question. Alcohol, tobacco, and even such "harmless" substances as caffeine are legal in most countries without question, but the fact that using them affects the body as well is generally accepted too. The major debate should be focused (at least in my mind) on whether or not smoking weed is any greater of a public risk and nuisance than a drunk person wandering the streets.

My personal feeling, having tried all of these and hang around many people who continue to use these, that among all the substances mentioned above, alcohol is the most dangerous and tobacco is the most addicting. I agree with the earlier statement of pot being a "gateway drug" not because of its actual effects, but due to its illicit nature. This current perception of the drug places it in the same category as very hard drugs such as heroin and cocaine. I know for a fact that the effects of pot (how they compare to other, legal substances is still debatable) are certaily not up to par with the harder drugs, yet they remain to be classified as one, with the exception of a few European countries. As far as addicting power goes, I see people many times smoke weed daily, but this is not necessarily an addiction. This part of my argument is somewhat difficult to expound on but I will try my best... I see many people who smoke weed, but if they are not able to smoke for awhile, they do not change moods as persons I see who have been off tobacco for awhile (I currently have a friend who is trying to quit smoking cigarettes and his mood has been dramatically altered since he has tried to quit). While persons who smoke weed (I can speak for them as well) do crave the sensation they get when smoking it, it is more of like a recreational activity or hobby someone wants to persue, but has no PHYSICAL addiction to it. For example, if a person likes to lift weights, he may lift weights every day, and say for instance he stops for a few days because he got sick. Well, that person will most likely "crave" weightlifting, but is he addicted to it?

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

[Phreakmeister]

Man made alcohol, God created marijuana

And what you should never forget as well:
Someone who has smoked 10 joints is not a menace to society, someone who has just drunk 10 beer is.

I think that the rest of the world (I happen to be living in The Netherlands, so for me it doesn;t count) has banned the wrong substances. Although I do not think that alcohol ought to be banned (that would probably harm me most http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif), it is an established fact, that alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana. Not only is alcohol more dangerous in the short term (being drunk), alcohol also is, contrary to marijuana, physically addictive.
For medicinal use, marijuana is even extremely suitable. Not really as a medecin (although it is said to help against rheumatism, so I've been told), but mostly as a painkiller. Marijuana is more pleasant and less dangerous to the body than morphine.

[TV_Guy]

Is the THC actually harmfull by itself, or is the brain cell, lower sperm count & all that come from the other chemicals in the smoke?
Why can't it be made into a THC pill for Arthritis and other pain related cases?
Personally I like the stuff in moderation, but too much and I just want to go home to bed.....Yawn!

It's biggest problem I think is the lack of motivation in longterm users, I have a few friends who have turned dropout. But in a way it's their fault. I may smoke it a dozen or so times a year and I'm fine.

In New Zealand hemp crops have just been trialled, cannabis is also likely to be reviewed. A popular suggestion is making it a finable offence (Like a speeding ticket), but not convicting people. A huge percentage of our court time and police time is wasted on Marijuana control.

Originally posted by Mandala:
My mate reckons that the cannabis laws came about not because the drug was considered dangerous, but to protect the clothing industry. You see hemp is far cheaper to make than cloth, it lasts longer than most materials of the time, is a excellent source of nutrition and can be used to make paper. The big boys of the time didn’t want to roll over so lobbied the government to outlaw it completely.


Anyone know anything about this?




The first illegal possesion law was in El Paso,TX and was put it place to control the Mexican immigrant workers...

Originally posted by NapoleonGH:
I think this planet would be alot better if everybody got stoned occasionally. Now I have never done pot and until it is legalized, I do not plan on it (It is just to great a risk)

I'm not sure where you live NapoleonGH but there is absolutly no risk in California.

Originally posted by LawEn4cer:
...It doesn't calm and relax everyone. There are people who become violant, ...

In my vast experience I have never seen anyone become violent from smoking Pot. I can see the moodiness... heck my sister hated it. Both Mom and Dad liked it... me too... but like many have said... I've outgrown it ( mostly http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif )


[This message has been edited by Bonker (edited January 30, 2002).]

[jettmotto]

theres alot posted here but if by chance this gets read i'm going to unload on you guys, and girls...

marijuana doesn't make anyone man, woman, dog, cat, mouse,ect. violent unless there is something else....nicotine, alcohol, cocaine ect. involved.

its not physically addicting, people are addicted to the high not the drug

this one is just an opinion but its not the gate way drug i did a couple things before i ever tryed pot and i know ppl who have smoked pot and hasn't done any other illegal drugs

thats just a couple for now if anyone replys i have tons more of info and if anyone wants to help fight for the legalization of cannibus check for your NORML (national organization to reform marijuana laws) easy to find on the net or if your just courious about all the facts they have that too

You will find that most campaigns are funded by special-interest groups to basically further that group's own purposes. Making marijuana illegal has been this way for over 50 years... It helps that both fabric manufacturers and tobacco companies support its ban so their competition will be limited.

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by jettmotto:
i did a couple things before i ever tryed pot and i know ppl who have smoked pot and hasn't done any other illegal drugs

You can add me to that list



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Do you believe in death after life?

The reason pot is not legal in Australia I believe is because the Government has not yet determined a way to utilise it for their own profit like they have with alcohol and tobacco.

While I'm on a roll......pot & alcohol..different strokes for diferent folks. Both have their down side (like most things in life)..anything in moderation. The secret is..can you control it. A smart person knows what his limitations are. My husband drinks rum, he is a happy drinker. Joe down the road drinks the same amount and wants to fight everyone and is an embarassment. Who shouldnt drink? Pot is not for everyone. Teenagers are at risk..it can cause schitzophrenia (bit like russian roulette..may happen/may not). The main issue I can see raised here is that pot should be legalised..I say NO!!! It should be decriminalised only. If legalised, I can drive under the influence, smoke it at the bus stop, basically use it where ever smoking anything is acceptable. It may be my choice to smoke..but it is also YOUR choice not to have me smoke around you. Decriminalising it means that the police cannot bust me in my own home...is that too much to ask..a nice compromise between the users and the non users. My home is my castle..if I want to have a smoke after a long, hard day at work while watching the TV...dont fine me..chase the REAL crims..the ones with guns..at the moment I am easy revenue. I starting smoking pot at 13 (not the brightest move)..I am 39..my last smoke was 2 weeks ago. Have I noticed any bad side effects in 26 years of indulgence? nope. Brain cells killed? no..I work in a high profile job..the brain works just fine thankyou. Am I drug addict? Not even close. I smoke when I want, if I want. Sometimes everyday for a month..sometimes none for a month. I am not addicted. I gave up at 25 for 2 years to have a child..didnt miss it. I class myself an experienced smoker with alot of smoking friends (none are addicts)Pot is NOT the danger. It is the people who take it that have the potential to be dangerous. Hope this helped the debate..sorry if I seemed to rammble..but I have strong veiws & can answer ANY question as good if not better than the so called 'never had a smoke' experts.

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by uforia:
Teenagers are at risk..it can cause schitzophrenia (bit like russian roulette..may happen/may not).

This is new for me. I am 18 now, I've been smoking pot for the past 3, 4 years, but I have never ever had schizophrenic experiences.

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Do you believe in death after life?

[Phreakmeister]

Originally posted by uforia:
If legalised, I can drive under the influence

That is such a load of b.s.!!! Alcohol is legal as well, but is it legal to drive under influence?????? (Ask Mr. Bush)

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Do you believe in death after life?

[jettmotto]

Originally posted by uforia:
The reason pot is not legal in Australia I believe is because the Government has not yet determined a way to utilise it for their own profit like they have with alcohol and tobacco.

i heard somnething like that once...in america it is illegal cause they can't figure out how to tax the seeds of it! i think that is a fat line of crap for 1 reason and probly the only reason if i have an apple tree i shouldn't have to ever buy apples again i'm not paying taxes on my own tree, maybe we should make ALL seed bearing plants illegal,

[jettmotto]

Originally posted by uforia:
While I'm on a roll......pot & alcohol..different strokes for diferent folks. Both have their down side (like most things in life)..anything in moderation. The secret is..can you control it. A smart person knows what his limitations are. My husband drinks rum, he is a happy drinker. Joe down the road drinks the same amount and wants to fight everyone and is an embarassment. Who shouldnt drink? Pot is not for everyone. Teenagers are at risk..it can cause schitzophrenia (bit like russian roulette..may happen/may not). The main issue I can see raised here is that pot should be legalised..I say NO!!! It should be decriminalised only. If legalised, I can drive under the influence, smoke it at the bus stop, basically use it where ever smoking anything is acceptable. It may be my choice to smoke..but it is also YOUR choice not to have me smoke around you. Decriminalising it means that the police cannot bust me in my own home...is that too much to ask..a nice compromise between the users and the non users. My home is my castle..if I want to have a smoke after a long, hard day at work while watching the TV...dont fine me..chase the REAL crims..the ones with guns..at the moment I am easy revenue. I starting smoking pot at 13 (not the brightest move)..I am 39..my last smoke was 2 weeks ago. Have I noticed any bad side effects in 26 years of indulgence? nope. Brain cells killed? no..I work in a high profile job..the brain works just fine thankyou. Am I drug addict? Not even close. I smoke when I want, if I want. Sometimes everyday for a month..sometimes none for a month. I am not addicted. I gave up at 25 for 2 years to have a child..didnt miss it. I class myself an experienced smoker with alot of smoking friends (none are addicts)Pot is NOT the danger. It is the people who take it that have the potential to be dangerous. Hope this helped the debate..sorry if I seemed to rammble..but I have strong veiws & can answer ANY question as good if not better than the so called 'never had a smoke' experts.

you seem pretty intelligent and you probly already know but for those who don't the reason alcohol has a different effect on "Joe" than your husband is because alcoholics liver is differant from the nonalcoholic. an alcoholics liver pretty much turns the alcohol into herion...........

i'm not saying who is an alcoholic and who isn't, but i drink once a week if that once a month maybe so i techniclly by the alcohol counclers am not an alcoholic because i don't drink everyday but when i do drink i don't embaress myself like "Joe" does, but i can keep up with him. If that makes sense to anyone i understood it lol

[jettmotto]

wow! amazing all the different ways this is going and i'm sure as more ppl have more experiences with pot this will go many more directions. lucky for me i will probly be logging on a lot more often the next couple months to see where this and all your other post conversations go. no doubt how interesting this will become in the future!:P