The Pledge Of Alligence

Can anyone find out for me if its a law that students have to stand and say the pledge of alligence every morning? My dumb ass History teacher says its a law..but im not sure. Thanks

[~wildangel~]

I can't answer your question precisely but I don't think it's a LAW...if you don't want to salute the country your in I guess you don't have to...

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[Serendipity]

Welcome to Dumb Laws, Gal http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif (I'm guessing that LV in your name means Las Vegas...)

I'm in the UK and we have no such thing here as swearing allegiance to our flag, at least not for students on a daily basis. There has been a call recently for immigrants to swear allegiance to our country, following Sept 11, some race riots we had this summer, and so on, but when I hear about what schoolkids in the US have to do every day... it seems very weird. Perhaps if there were no oath of allegiance in the US there would be fewer Americans harping on about how America is the best democracy in greatest country in the world. As far as I'm concerned, the US is just another country - a very rich and successful one, but with plenty of bad points as well as good ones).

[This message has been edited by Serendipity (edited December 12, 2001).]

[CBranski]

Like most of these laws, a pledge law would be up to the states, not the federal government. The states that have a pledge law mostly state that the pledge must be offered, not required. If religion precludes you from saying the pledge, however, I doubt if you could be forced to do so by law.

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[paulgro]

It may not even be a law, but a requirement of the Board of Education of your school district..

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First, Hello! I just found this site. It looks like it could be neat!
To answer your question, no, it's not a law. In fact, requiring someone to say the pledge would be unconstitutional. The same as requiring that students participate in prayer in school.

[Idnew]

Welcome Lvgal and Lincoln.

I certainly don't see how that could possibly be a law.

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[aclu14]

Hi Lv and Lin!
If anyone is in any grade at school, did they make you say the pledge at 2:00 pm a few days after 9/11? MY science teacher said that Pres Bush requested it be said by every student in America on that day at that time.

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I'll think of a better sig when I feel like it! Now stop bothering me! :D

I doubt there is a law, but do we need a law to tell us what is right and what is wrong? I can't imagine anyone objecting to reaffirming devotion to this country, or at least having enough class to stand and respect others while they are doing it.

I'll look into this, but as I have *heard*, while it is required to stand during the pledge of allegiance, it is not actually required to recite it.

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jeff:
[B]I'll look into this, but as I have *heard*, while it is required to stand during the pledge of allegiance, it is not actually required to recite it.
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I'm willing to bet you'll find that would be against the first amendment. While I personally wouldn't condone that kind of refusal to your country, having hat choice IS part of democracy.

[Phreakmeister]

What I wonder: Would it be illegal to replace the word "God" in the Pledge of Allegiance with let's say "Allah"?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under Allah, with freedom and justice for all

I heard somewhere that Allah means "The God" in Arabic. How about:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under Brahman, Vishnu, and Shiva, with freedom and justice for all

[Phreakmeister]

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under Jahweh, Jehova, Brahma, Vishnu, Garuda, Shiva, Ganesha, Hanuman and Allah, indivisible, with freedom and justice for all

What about this one?

[Serendipity]

Let's have some Goddesses too!! Isis, Istar Hecate, Demeter, Kali...

And what about Jah?
http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

it is not a law that you have to stand or say the pledge but it is a way to show support for your country. so stand up and say it!:D Allah does not mean "The God" it means god just plain God the same God that other's pray to. it's just in a different language

[bi-blonde]

quote:
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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under Jahweh, Jehova, Brahma, Vishnu, Garuda, Shiva, Ganesha, Hanuman and Allah, indivisible, with freedom and justice for all
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What about this one?

Don't like that one either...It should be "One nation, under logic"

[Enforcer]

Personally I pledge allegiance to everybody who works at squaresoft: The company created by God(Am I allowed to say that, oh well)
Long live Final fantasy,Chrono Trigger\Cross, Parasite Eve I and II, secret of Mana\evermore, seiken Detsetsu 3 and much much more

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[Enforcer]

One Nation, under sience?

Or for the homer simpsons'among us

One nation under Duff Beer

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SWAT VAN comin'ATYA

[Idnew]

How about one nation controlled mostly by our lousy Government

[cleoeo]

We've got this super-patiot at work who's determined to see all school kids recite the pledge of allegiance every morning. The guy's got flags all over his desk etc. Yet he's so racist and intollerant that he hates about 90% of the people in this country.
He also rails againt "Government interferrance in people's lives" yet believes all young males should be required to perform a 4 year military service.

[Phreakmeister]

LOL@Idnew

Just found the actual law in the state code of GA....here it is:

20-2-310(c)(1) Each student in the public schools of this state shall be afforded the opportunity to recite the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America during each school day. It shall be the duty of each local board of education to establish a policy setting the time and manner for recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance. Such policy shall be established in writing and shall be distributed to each teacher within the school.

So it seems they must ALLOW everyone to recite the pledge, but the state code at least does not force the issue...

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

Some history...


The Pledge of Allegiance

Thirty-one words which affirm the values and freedom that the American flag represents are recited while facing the flag as a pledge of Americans' loyalty to their country. The Pledge of Allegiance was written for the 400th anniversary, in 1892, of the discovery of America. A national committee of educators and civic leaders planned a public-school celebration of Columbus Day to center around the flag. Included with the script for ceremonies that would culminate in raising of the flag was the pledge. So it was in October 1892 Columbus Day programs that school children across the country first recited the Pledge of Allegiance this way:

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and
to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible, with Liberty
and Justice for all.

Controversy continues over whether the author was the chairman of the committee, Francis Bellamy - who worked on a magazine for young people that published the pledge - or James Upham, who worked for the publishing firm that produced the magazine. The pledge was published anonymously in the magazine and was not copyrighted.

According to some accounts of Bellamy as author, he decided to write a pledge of allegiance, rather than a salute,because it was a stronger expression of loyalty - something particularly significant even 27 years after the Civil War ended. "One Nation indivisible" referred to the outcome of the Civil War, and "Liberty and Justice for all" expressed the ideals of the Declaration of Independence.

The words "my flag" were replaced by "the flag of the United States" in 1923 because some foreign-born people might have in mind the flag of the country of their birth, instead of the U.S. flag. A year later, "of America" was added after "United States." No form of the pledge received official recognition by Congress until June 22, 1942, when it was formally included in the U.S. Flag Code. The official name of The Pledge of Allegiance was adopted in 1945. The last change in language came on Flag Day 1954, when Congress passed a law which added the words "under God" after "one nation."

Originally, the pledge was said with the right hand in the so-called "Bellamy Salute," with the hand resting first outward from the chest, then the arm extending out from the body. Once Hitler came to power in Europe, some Americans were concerned that this position of the arm and hand resembled the salute rendered by the Nazi military. In 1942 Congress established the current practice of rendering the pledge with the right hand placed flat over the heart.

Section 7 of the Federal Flag Code states that when not in military uniform, men should remove any headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, thereby resting the hand over the heart. People in military uniform should remain silent, face the flag and render the military salute.

The Flag Code specifies that any future changes to the pledge would have to be with the consent of the President.

The Pledge of Allegiance now reads:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America ;
and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[This message has been edited by Bonker (edited January 31, 2002).]

[Sephirstein]

I doubt forcing someone to say the Pledge would be constitutional...The Christian reference added my McCarthy during the 1950s (under the guise of attaining moral superiority over the Soviets) may violate separation of Church and State.

[Phreakmeister]

Would it be illegal to state the oath, replacing God with any other god from any other religion? Is it fully legal, illegal or illegal but tolerated?

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Do you believe in death after life?

[aclu14]

I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the semiunited country of China. And to the communism, for which it stands, one nation, under Buddha, soon to be divisible, with commies and single-kid families for all. Konnichiwa.

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[~wildangel~]

LOL http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[xV35ballx]

I happen to know for a fact that in at least Lawrence, MA, it is NOT required that every student stand. The way I know this is because we had a Jehova's Witness in our class who would remain seated durring the pledge. Just thought I'd throw in my $.02 worth.

[Phreakmeister]

I happen to know for a fact that it is not required over here in The Netherlands either http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/wink.gif

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Do you believe in death after life?

[aclu14]

My firend is Jehovah's Witness and she doesn't say the pledge either. Something to do about affiliation with an entity other than God.
I'm agnostic, and a member of the Oppositionist Party, and I don't say the pledge either. One of our mottos is "There is a fine line between anarchy and politics, and we are that line."

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[Lish2oo6]

it is a law for schools you must stand up and speak it clearly.

Standing to show respect while others recite the Pledge of Allegiance is like not driving down Main Street during a parade honoring something you don't care for, or not cutting into the funeral procession of a stranger. It's a matter of respect for your neighbors, a quality lacking in today's selfish society. It shows class. It shows a person's ability to think beyond his own personal interests. Anyone who does not do these things is too stupid to realize that they do their own causes more damage by being intolerant of the causes of others. Intolerance begets, and truly deserves, intolerance.

I'm in the UK and we have no such thing here as swearing allegiance to our flag, at least not for students on a daily basis. There has been a call recently for immigrants to swear allegiance to our country, following Sept 11, some race riots we had this summer, and so on, but when I hear about what schoolkids in the US have to do every day... it seems very weird. Perhaps if there were no oath of allegiance in the US there would be fewer Americans harping on about how America is the best democracy in greatest country in the world. As far as I'm concerned, the US is just another country - a very rich and successful one, but with plenty of bad points as well as good ones).


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Serendipity: I am American, and as far as I know, recitation of The Pledge is a tradition only and not a law. I refused to stand and recite it all throughout high school, and although the teacher questioned my choice, he did not pursue it as a serious matter, and if he had, I would have simply contacted the Civil Liberties Union and won my case hands down.


You cannot always trust what you hear. Most people think that the traditions and laws of other countries are weird- I could go on and on about culture clash within the European Union!

I can't think of anything truly ridiculous that I was required to do in public school, so I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "when I hear about the things that American schoolkids have to do".....it may vary greatly depending on what kind of school it is and on what region it's in.

As far as your comments about America in general, everyone in the world has the right to think that their nation is the best. I'm sure that you feel patriotism for your own country. Nobody said that you have to think America is the greatest democracy, but you shouldn't criticize Americans who do feel that way, because maybe they have a very good reason to feel patriotic. Patriotism is nothing more than an opinion with personal experiences behind it- I live in Finland and I've heard some Finnish people say that Finland is the best place on earth and that all other countries can go hang. They probably won't keep too many foreign friends with that attitude, but the viewpoint is still their right.

Originally posted by Disconnected:
Standing to show respect while others recite the Pledge of Allegiance is like not driving down Main Street during a parade honoring something you don't care for, or not cutting into the funeral procession of a stranger. It's a matter of respect for your neighbors, a quality lacking in today's selfish society. It shows class. It shows a person's ability to think beyond his own personal interests. Anyone who does not do these things is too stupid to realize that they do their own causes more damage by being intolerant of the causes of others. Intolerance begets, and truly deserves, intolerance.

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Disconnected: I didn't stand either, and believe me, it has nothing to do with stupidity. Rather, what is the point of standing up with 20 other students who are just giving the Pledge "lip service" anyway. The Pledge has nothing to do with respect; it's just an old habit that has little modern meaning.

I show respect for my country by writing letters to the editor about issues concerning the common good, and by volunteering and donating money to charity.

I can't speak for the sincerity of your associates, but don't think that everyone who says the Pledge of Allegiance is giving lip service anymore than those who recite the Lord's Prayer. That is up to each individual. As far as showing respect, don't you expect that the newspaper will respect your opinion enough to print it? Would you like it if they didn't? So why don't you show respect to the opinions of others, unless your opinion is the only one the world needs to hear. I will repeat, intolerance deserves intolerance.

Originally posted by Disconnected:
I can't speak for the sincerity of your associates, but don't think that everyone who says the Pledge of Allegiance is giving lip service anymore than those who recite the Lord's Prayer. That is up to each individual. As far as showing respect, don't you expect that the newspaper will respect your opinion enough to print it? Would you like it if they didn't? So why don't you show respect to the opinions of others, unless your opinion is the only one the world needs to hear. I will repeat, intolerance deserves intolerance.


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Disconnected: Well all I can say is that you really don't know enough about me to make such judgments. There are MANY ways to show love for one's country, and standing to recite the Pledge wasn't one of mine. It doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't make the country a better place anymore than wearing uniforms in school. Why would you call me intolerant simply because I exercised my freedom of choice....

I know many people who are religious only by habit and not in their hearts, and they recite the lords prayer only because everyone else does.

You are correct about some people reciting prayers without meaning them, but my point is that if you are in a church you should stand quietly with the rest of the congregation during those prayers out of respect, whether you speak the words or not. Same with the Pledge.

[aclu14]

My question about saying the Pledge is: If there is a "mandated" time for spouting political beliefs, why isn't there a "mandated" time for spouting religious beliefs?

I pledge allegiance
To the ideals
Of the Oppositionist Party
And to the opinions
For which it stands
One party
On this earth
Indivisible
With better sense
And logic
For all.

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That is forbidden by the First Amendment.

[The Horseman]

I have a friend who lived in Dallas for a couple of years due to his dad's work. He's a British citizen, and both parents are British. So can someone explain to me why his teacher in Texas made him say the pledge of alligence (every day mind you - he can recite it by heart)?

[weldordave]

That's not right Horse. He owes nothing to the US. Our education is free and not based on any alligence. I would hope that he was going along out of respect for those around him much as I have tipped a few "to the Queen" when around Brits, Scots, Aussies, and Canucks. Evan though I gives a rat's ass about the old *****. The teacher missed an opportunity to display the cultural diversity rather than forcing a visitor to conform to our standards. Chin up, carry on!

Dave, you showed good taste in joining your friends in toasting the Queen. Nothing wrong with that at all. But where did you get the idea that education is free? Any taxpayer would disagree.

[The Horseman]

Dave - did you mean economically free or politically/culturally free (of stereotypes that is)?

[weldordave]

No No No. I meant free as you don't "pay as you go". Our school district is funded through property taxes. I've paid before my kid went to school, and will pay long after she graduates. People that rent or that do not own property here do not "pay" for education, but I do. It kind of all evens out. My elementary school has kids that are not even citizens and require a translator. Chances are that their parents are not property tax payers. BUT, education is education. The more the better! I do not mind at all paying taxes for the education of anyone. Note: My city is at the top of the list for property taxes in the US. So, my friends, by free I did not mean that no one pays. I do. But I will gladly pay taxes up the kazoo for education rather than for a S&L bailout or for blood money to the NY City disaster of 9/11. English, French, Mexican, even Phreakmeister can burn up my tax dollars on education. Horace Mann(?), wish he was still around!

[The Horseman]

Certainly go in for the 'more the better' bit. And for those of us with a lousy education, can you expain who Horace Mann is?