GED

What are your thoughts on the program that allows a person to take a simple test to get credit that is equivalent to a high school diploma (although most companies and colleges don't view them the same way)?

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

Doesn't bother me. I've known people that have done it because of circumstances beyond their control. It really sucks that some companies discriminate against people with GED's

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Screw it, its game time, let's go! - Martin Sheen

[weldordave]

Not the same. HS diploma means you stuck it out till the end and finished the job. I wouldn't even consider an applicant with a GED. If you believe it is the same then how about I get a 6 month crash course on what the test is and then am allowed to take a bar exam or become a micro neurosurgeon. Or get a contract to build a bridge frame with my engineering GED. You might be driving on that bridge. Education is free through HS, if you can't hack it in school I shouldn't have to accept your "special circumstances" or your "alternative choices". Wake up, go to school, do what is expected of you, get a diploma. Wake up, go to work, do what is expected of you, get a paycheck. It's not wake up, can't handle going to work, but want an alternative way to get money. Wait--Welfare. Maybe this is where it all starts!

[Serendipity]

I must say I agree. A university degree is a qualification that shows not only that you're smart, but also that you can handle an endurance test.

[Idnew]

There are times when a person can't finish HS. For females although stupid would be to get pg and have to drop out. Maybe a guy has to drop out to get a job and help his family. Many reasons a person has to drop out. Then of course there are some that just quit to quit. At least they think enough to go get a GED and they are not easy to get from some of the stuff people have told me are on there. I probably couldn't pass one.

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I put it in General Discussion because education is regulated by law, and different levels of government at that. Therefore it wouldn't be appropriate in a category for a specific level of government.

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

[jettmotto]

OK how bout certificate of completion vs. diploma or GED. the certificate of completion says that you have be to school for 12+ yrs but did not pass a required test to get diploma (ISTEP, SAT ect. tests) i live in indiana and we have the ISTEP which was not required for class of '99 (me) but when i didn't pass biology, which i didn't know untill the last 3 days of school. class of 2000 had to pass istep test need less to say i did biology then next yr when i had the chance i took istep NOW I'm class of 2001 and all i have to show for my 14 freaking yrs of schooling is a certificate of completion which i would have been better off getting a GED i think cause maybe then i would have been out of school in what 10 yrs http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Zany-J]

I think any type of education is important, whether it be through work or at school, college etc.

I left my university course (Law) not because I disliked it, it turned into a really pricey hobby (too expensive living in London).

Still- it hasn't put me off, I moved back up north and have got into college as a mature student-that's what they think! 80)

In my opinion, it's never too late to start studying. I wanna be a student 4 life!

[weldordave]

Originally posted by jettmotto:
OK how bout certificate of completion vs. diploma or GED. the certificate of completion says that you have be to school for 12+ yrs but did not pass a required test to get diploma (ISTEP, SAT ect. tests) i live in indiana and we have the ISTEP which was not required for class of '99 (me) but when i didn't pass biology, which i didn't know untill the last 3 days of school. class of 2000 had to pass istep test need less to say i did biology then next yr when i had the chance i took istep NOW I'm class of 2001 and all i have to show for my 14 freaking yrs of schooling is a certificate of completion which i would have been better off getting a GED i think cause maybe then i would have been out of school in what 10 yrs http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/frown.gif

1. How could you NOT know that you were not passing save for the last three days of school?
2. If you did not pass a required test to get a diploma, you should not get one. It would cheapen the diplomas of those who met the requirements.
3. The certificate of completion is simply that. You have exhausted 12+ years of tax money- now go flip burgers.
4. Your post exemplifies the need for more stringent educational standards. I am probably old enough to be your father but learned in school to put your best foot forward in all communication, written or verbal.
5. Diploma= You did it.
GED= You did it to alternative standards
Cert. of Comp.= You did time.

that guy who said he wouldnt consider a someone with a ged is crap, I think most lawsuits are crap, but I wouldnt care if you get sued or fired which you can. The people one here who act like people who get geds are morons are morons. Maybe you didnt have a problem finishing high school but thats just your life. And where do you get the idea that people who get ged are idiots? Where do you get the idea that people who get high school diplomas arent idiots? Neither of those are an indication that you have learned anything. Most of the people in the high school I went to and in the high schools of people I know dont especially know what that are learning... they get an assignment read through a book copy answers. Ask them to explain what they learned they cant, I dont know how old you people are or how things were when you were in school, but the way things are know and they way they have been for quite a while in public schools, is basically you turn in papers your get a good grade, you dont and you fail. Its not about what you learn or dont learn. Just about everyone I know either goes through the motions just to get good grades, or they learn on their own and can actually write a paper or answer questions from their collective knowledge, the majority of students are the former. I find the statement that getting a high school diploma is an indication of what you know absurb. But Its a sign of the times I suppose, its no longer about what you can do or know its just about what papers you have. But think about people throughout history that are consider to be great inventors or scientist or writers etc. how many of them just go through strictly formal school? Most inventors and thinkers, and scientist I can think generally are bright independent and determined. They seek out knowledge on their because of a love of learning, not for any diploma or certificate, I can recall a great many such people who didnt do well in school but prospered because of themselves and what they could do. Thats what matters, If all you look at is someones "qualifications" then its your lost, not hiring someone because of what diploma they have is discrimination and you can and should IMO be fired at the very least. If you are in a position to interview a person for a job they you should consider thier ability. Not going through school the traditional way isnt always be choice, and isnt even the best way, or the way that would produce the best results. If you have to judge someone judge them by what they can do not some piece of paper.

[jettmotto]

Originally posted by weldordave:
1. How could you NOT know that you were not passing save for the last three days of school?
2. If you did not pass a required test to get a diploma, you should not get one. It would cheapen the diplomas of those who met the requirements.
3. The certificate of completion is simply that. You have exhausted 12+ years of tax money- now go flip burgers.
4. Your post exemplifies the need for more stringent educational standards. I am probably old enough to be your father but learned in school to put your best foot forward in all communication, written or verbal.
5. Diploma= You did it.
GED= You did it to alternative standards
Cert. of Comp.= You did time.

1. the teacher told me i would pass till the 3rd to last day of school
2.the test wasn't required for me in the first place
3. i know what a cert. of completion is cause i'm the one who has it and it was 13 yrs not 12
4. you have got to be out of your mind if you think i went to school for 13 yrs and didn't try or quote "put my best foot forward" that would be completely stupid if i wasn't gonna try i woulda dropped out when i had the chance in the ninth grade

[BeetleJuice]

Originally posted by weldordave:
Not the same. HS diploma means you stuck it out till the end and finished the job. I wouldn't even consider an applicant with a GED. If you believe it is the same then how about I get a 6 month crash course on what the test is and then am allowed to take a bar exam or become a micro neurosurgeon. Or get a contract to build a bridge frame with my engineering GED. You might be driving on that bridge. Education is free through HS, if you can't hack it in school I shouldn't have to accept your "special circumstances" or your "alternative choices". Wake up, go to school, do what is expected of you, get a diploma. Wake up, go to work, do what is expected of you, get a paycheck. It's not wake up, can't handle going to work, but want an alternative way to get money. Wait--Welfare. Maybe this is where it all starts!

I've been thinking on this reply for a couple days now. This, to me, is an Elitest attitude. Here is why I think so. Bear with me for a moment while I pose a few questions to this respondant.
You say you wouldn't consider hiring a person that had a GED and through this statement I feel we can also extrapolate that the same could be said for one that has not completed school as well.
Can we also presume that you would not hire Einstien? He failed math which is a requirement to garner your diploma.
Would you refuse Dave Thomas a job? He didn't finish high school until 1993. 9 years ago. At the age of 60.
These are just a few examples of a myriad of individuals that have NOT let absence of a diploma deter them from leaving their mark on the world.

Now, on to another point you tried to make. You try to equate neurosurgery and engineering degrees with a GED. You are mixing oil and water and that doesn't work. Both of those fields you used as your basis for your argument require highly specialized and rigorous "training" for lack of a better word.

Just because one has completed high school and aquired his/her diploma does not necessarily mean that they would make a better worker or a smarter worker. It only means at the least, that they completed the necessary requirements to obtain that piece of paper. Nothing more. Nothing less. A diploma and 75 cents will get you a cup of coffee.



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[weldordave]

forumposter: I would have to guess that English or Composition was not your forte'. Yes, go look it up. ALL jobs require a degree of education. Even my blue-collar, knuckle busting, a$$ twisting job requires clear and concise communication. Plus the ability to read, comprehend, and execute detailed plans, blueprints, and changes. Even our laborers are mostly university students.
jettmotto: I truly find it very hard to believe that ANY student does not know his/her GPA on a daily basis. That is if you actually care what it is. We have many students on this board and I would bet that they know exactly what their grades are. How about it Phreak, Enforcer, aclu? Do you know what your grades are? Seeing their posts and seeing posts from jettmotto and forumposter I would have to say that Phreak and others are gleening everything they can from their education.
Bjuice: Why do you think Dave Thomas completed his education? Maybe because he saw the importance of education and wanted to set an example to his high school work force that a complete education is important even though he was a millionare and was about to die. And you mention Einstein. The math he failed would bring a modern physicist to tears. Have you read his notes? Translated into whatever your language. This man had a grasp on written communication and wrote clearly with correct punctuation, structure, and grammer. Same with Tesla. And I will take your description of me as an elitist with great pride. An orphan who was sold to a work farm for a $60 fee, who missed on average 3 months of school a year because of work (at the age of 7), who made his own way from the age of 15, who saw education as an opprtunity rather than a way to waste 8 hours a day, who was ostracised at school because of my unfortunate circumstances. Now I am an ELITEST. This while you take advantage of and squander my educational tax dollars! Education is opportunity, it is there if you want it. By chance, can you tell me what your greatest science fair project was? Mine was a mini Tesla coil that I used to power a stove and a refrigerator with free power from earth. That was in 11TH grade. I lost to the Mayor's daughter who did a comparison of laundry detergents! This did not stop me, I merely learned politics.
To you all: Keep posting, your posts lend credence to my views!

[Zany-J]

I agree with a couple of points Forumposter wrote about. Firstly I do believe that there is no positive correlation between someone 'being an idiot' and someone having a GED. Secondly I know that a lot of students lose interest at school when they are taught by people who do not want to be there. If the teachers are not supportive or encouraging then obviously the students are less likely to do well. However the point relating to independent study implied that being self-taught was a negative thing, which I don't necessarily agree with.

(In the UK there is a massive shortage of teachers at the moment. There were four extra job vacancy supplements in the Times Educational Supplement this week).

My own experience of school was not a very happy one. I did extremely well at middle school but moved to four different high schools in the space of two years. The short story is that I slid into a culture which rebelled against anything productive. It was seen to be 'cool' NOT to be interested in school or be intelligent. This was a very damaging way of thinking, (cognitive dissonance) it took me a couple of years to get free from this destructive pattern. I have since been back to study and am currently doing a Maths (math) correspondence course.

My current job is as a health care worker in a Psychiatric home. Many of the necessary attributes you need for this job are not learnt at school. For instance, you need a certain strength of character not to retaliate when you are hit, punched, bitten, kicked,pinched etc.

Dave: The main qualifications for my job are a) not to be aggressive b) have a great deal of patience c) have an altruistic nature d) be reassuring to clients e) have excellent communication skills.

Aren't these qualifications just as good as being academically qualified?!

(Dave am glad you were not too discouraged by losing the science project!)

[BeetleJuice]

Dave Thomas didn't complete his education until AFTER he had amassed his wealth and business.

As far as being ostracized, boohoo. You ain't the only one, nor will you be the last.

As far as ME wasting and squandering YOUR tax dollars, don't EVEN try to lay that on me pal. I WORKED my entire high school career due to both of my parents being disabled and *I* paid not only MY way but that of my brother and sister through a PRIVATE school. No tax dollars were used in my final years of education, and NONE were used for that of my brother and sister. Know your facts before you lump everyone into a catagory. Thats the problem with Elitist. Monocular vision.
I didn't have time for science projects. I had a family to support. I used my knowlege to develope a recycling project in a ceramic chip manufacturer that cut the demand for raw materials by 75 percent, (saving the plant over 500,000 a year there) reduce hazardous waste shipments by 90 percent as a direct result of that recycling project, (sorry, I was not privy to the monetary savings from that), designed equipment that reduced waste, redesigned some equipment to increase production etc....
No, I do not have a college degree.


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Go ahead and say my name three times...... I dare ya

One of these days we will look in our microscopes and find ourselves staring right into God's eyes, and the first one who blinks is going to loose his testicles.


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Chihuahuas</A>


The Book Worm (http://www.thebookworm.0catch.com)

[CBranski]

When it comes to considering candidates with a GED, it really depends on the individual. For example, is this person articulate, qualified, etc.? Circumstances sometimes lead one to leave school, and I think that people should be allowed to prove that they've grown up and corrected mistakes like dropping out of school. And honestly, the public schools in this nation are getting so wretched that it wouldn't shock me to see GED classes more academically rigourous than regular high school!

Dave Thomas is an example of someone who had a GED and was quite succesful. Did you also know that Bernard Kerik, who was New York's police commissioner on 9/11 dropped out of high school in Patterson, New Jersey? Should we as a society said to messrs. Thomas and Kerik that they do not deserve a second chance? Something to think about.

Even with all that said, I do have to agree with Dave on many points. I also have a blue collar position, and the ability to communicate in an articulate fashion is vital and will determine how you're treated. If you don't want to be treated like a moron, don't communicate like a moron.

I realised the value of education after I (barely) graduated high school and found that the only jobs I could get were the rather dirty blue collar variety. As such, I'll be 32 when I finally graduate from college.

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