The Declaration of Individual Rights

The Declaration of Individual Rights
http://oneworldorder.org/rights.htm

[BrotherBluto17]

One of the few documents in my life that I have felt is important enough to memorize!

[aclu14]

Welcome Bluto! I take it you've seen Animal House before, quite excellent movie. RIP John Belushi

[BrotherBluto17]

Surprisingly enough, although the movie is very popular, very few people understand that reference.

[Dingbat]

I believe in the The Declaration of Individual Rights very strongly...I think it is logical, make perfect sence, and EVERYONE should agree with it.

[Sjax]

1. The right to life. So no capital punishment / death penalty?
2. The right to the pursuit of happiness. Also if it harms others or the environment or violates others privacy? The text said that it was absolute rights. Then we have a conflict with §4, §6 and §10. Pursuit of happiness is very subjective and hard to define.
3. The right to own property, intellectual and/or tangible.
The environment belongs to all and 5. The right to earn a living through one’s own efforts, mental or physical. Another conflict, the John Locke problem. How can we produce anything if the environment belongs to all of us? How can we have any material properties, if we havent stolen it from the environment, and thereby from all other human beings?, and how can we have 7. The right to defend his/her life and property and family.
, when all things belong to all of us. 8. The rights to have children, ONLY if he/she can guarantee food, shelter, clothing, safety and education for such and provide for any and all medical needs of such. Who can make such a guarantee? Can you?
10. The right to privacy in all forms. Also if it violates others right to pursue happiness?

Just a couple of thoughts...

[Serendipity]

And how about a correlated Bill of Responsibilities of the Individual? Rights without responsibilities have neither meaning nor value.

[Sjax]

I think I'll just stick to the good old human rights (www.un.org/Overview/rights.html), declared by the UN.
I think they have a little more substance:D

[aclu14]

Quite right Sjax. I stand by you as always.

And how about a correlated Bill of Responsibilities of the Individual? Rights without responsibilities have neither meaning nor value.

I agree 100%

So no capital punishment / death penalty?

Uhhhh yes, if you violate someone else's right and thus not live by and respect other's individual rights you forfeited your right to even exist.:rolleyes:

[BrotherBluto17]

How can you follow the laws of a body that has tyrants among its membership. The UN includes GREAT countries like Afghanistan, Cuba, Zimbabwe, Vietnam, North Korea, Iran, Iraq... the list just goes on and on.

[DV8]

What each person believes about human rights are flexible like what kind of religions each wants to believe in. I do not belong to any religion but I am also not an Athiest. I agree to all the things Sjax "touched" on but I do agree with 1. The right to life.

2. The right to the pursuit of happiness. should be changed to:

11. The right to the pursuit of happiness as long as it does not conflict with rules 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10.

6. The right to live his/her life any way he/she likes without causing physical harm to another individual.

It mightn't just be physical harm to another individual [could be mental] but also physical or mental(:p) harm to another individual's property then rule 7. needent exist! :D

[Dingbat]

Hmmm, good observations Sjax, but

2. The right to the pursuit of happiness.

is more of a mental thing IMO, and I think you can be happy and feel safe without harming others and the enviroment like it is possible now. Of course you can't persuit happiness by violating other rights like their privacy and so on (basicly rights 1-10).

3. The right to own property, intellectual and/or tangible.

The environment belongs to all

and

5. The right to earn a living through one’s own efforts, mental or physical.

Another conflict, the John Locke problem. How can we produce anything if the environment belongs to all of us? How can we have any material properties, if we havent stolen it from the environment, and thereby from all other human beings?

Well if the environment belongs to all already, I guess you can take what you want because it is yours. I think what they are trying to say here is that noone can OWN a the environment. If noone can own the environment, then we steal nothing. Or it is just a matter of sharing....and that is somehting we learn in kindergarten...

and how can we have

7. The right to defend his/her life and property and family.

, when all things belong to all of us.

It is stated that the enviroment belongs to all, but your property and life and family is yours and you can do what you want with them or in it to pursuit hap!%!%!%!%!%s or whatever. If someone violates your property, family, or life, by violating your privacy for example, then you can perform this right.

8. The rights to have children, ONLY if he/she can guarantee food, shelter, clothing, safety and education for such and provide for any and all medical needs of such.

Who can make such a guarantee? Can you?

I think it would be easy to make a guarantee like that. Just check your financial standings, rescources, and the situation to see if you really can have children, but who said YOU had to do it...perhaps a superiour who is educated, speciallised in this, and can help in the choises tell you if you can.

[BrotherBluto17]

Dingbat, good reasoning. Also, always be sure of yourself. Remove the last line of the post. Have the confidence to say, "That is my opinion, take it or leave it!"

[DV8]

Well if the environment belongs to all already, I guess you can take what you want because it is yours. I think what they are trying to say here is that noone can OWN a the environment. If noone can own the environment, then we steal nothing. Or it is just a matter of sharing....and that is somehting we learn in kindergarten...

Humm... And so the fact that nothing can be stolen voids 3. The right to own property, tangible. As noone own any property. Property originally came from the enviroment therefore it is everyone's.

And in order for the sharing to work, wouldn't everyone have to believe in the same thing? That sharing is right. And people have to share equally. How does money come into all this? and wont there always be someone who is lazy, only takes but doesnt give or someone who is selfish and wants all?

DV8, how is it that you manage to understand everything exactly backwards? I am just curious.

Obvioulsy you need to do alot of reading on the subject. You have clearly expressed 100% lack of knowledge of Objectivism (http://www.objectivistcenter.org)

[Dingbat]

And in order for the sharing to work, wouldn't everyone have to believe in the same thing? That sharing is right.

Of course

And people have to share equally. How does money come into all this?

I'm sure we can figure a system out that can help this (implying if there isn't one already). You could share by the personnal value, quantity, weight....etc. Maybe currency can help the trade by adding more value (implying if there is any in this system...).

and wont there always be someone who is lazy, only takes but doesnt give or someone who is selfish and wants all?

Those people obviously didn't follow the rules and are violating letting their temptations, selfishness, and superiour feelings overcome them; plus, how can you have all if you share equally?

[DV8]

Originally posted by MyEmail.Com
DV8, how is it that you manage to understand everything exactly backwards? I am just curious.

Obvioulsy you need to do alot of reading on the subject. You have clearly expressed 100% lack of knowledge of Objectivism (http://www.objectivistcenter.org)

I dont know Email, it must be a genetic fault.

I am sure u understand about genetic faults as you seem to have a major one of your own: Your capabilities of insulting people when there really isnt any need what so ever!

I would hate to know how you talk to or express your feelings to your children, fellow workers, family and friends. Or do you just feel an ability to insult people carelessly on an online forum?

You know what, just because I might have an understanding of everything backwards, it does not give u the right to say so in that manner. You could have very kindly corrected my errors and help a poor lil girl understand her facts on "Objectivism" a lil better. :(

[KDMan]

DV8

Please reread the Declaration of Individual Rights again. There is nothing conflicting! All the rules complement eachother. I believe they are the most humane and objective rights a human can have. If every nation in the world would have excepted them we would not have this many conflicts right now. Every human deserves an honorable, happy, fullfiling life. Declaration of Individual Rights are basicly saying this.

[Dingbat]

Originally posted by MyEmail.Com
DV8, how is it that you manage to understand everything exactly backwards? I am just curious.

Obvioulsy you need to do alot of reading on the subject. You have clearly expressed 100% lack of knowledge of Objectivism

I dont know Email, it must be a genetic fault.

I am sure u understand about genetic faults as you seem to have a major one of your own: Your capabilities of insulting people when there really isnt any need what so ever!

I would hate to know how you talk to or express your feelings to your children, fellow workers, family and friends. Or do you just feel an ability to insult people carelessly on an online forum?

You know what, just because I might have an understanding of everything backwards, it does not give u the right to say so in that manner. You could have very kindly corrected my errors and help a poor lil girl understand her facts on "Objectivism" a lil better.


Hey DV8...the truth sometimes hurts...

[BrotherBluto17]

DV8 seriously, with a clear mind free of bias, reread the Declaration of Individual Rights. Think about the purpose of each right. Think about the meaning of each right. Think about the advantage and disadvantage of each right. Then, finally after contemplating each statement, think how the document could help society. Then I will be glad to answer any questions you may have.:)

[aclu14]

I think Sjax made it clear...

[Dingbat]

Then you are not clear...

[Sjax]

Thanks aclu,
The main reason that these rights get into conflict with eachother, is the absolutism. As I have stated elsewhere, these rights give people like bin Laden the right to pursue happiness, however he wants to...

[Dingbat]

Sjax, I think it's been stated by me and other's that you can pursuit happyness....but it must not conflict rights 1-10.

[aclu14]

But what if your pusuit of happiness is itching a bug bite and your incessant itching annoys everyone around you?

[Dingbat]

aclu14, I don't know if you're joking or being serious...

But, I don't think there's anything against that :D .