Zero Tolerance

Two teens burst into a classroom making a mockery of how seriously the school systems take any sort of threat nowadays and pretend to hold up the class. They are then arrested. Read the full story at

http://www.nj.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/cgi-free/getstory ]Fake Attack (http://www.nj.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/cgi-free/getstory_ssf.cgi?j0133_BC_NJ-BRF--FakeAttack&&news&newsflash-newjersey)

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies



[This message has been edited by Idnew (edited March 28, 2001).]

[paulgro]

Everyone might disagree with me, but there's enough tension right now. I think they got what they deserve.

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[Ada_Doom]

Sounds a bit over the top to me. They haven't actually committed any crime (unless scaring the pants off people is now illegal), they weren't armed, and they didn't hurt anyone. Stupid thing to do, but maybe it was a protest against zero tolerance?

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Cake or death?

[paulgro]

The crime is holding people against their will. Remember, everyone in that room thought those two were armed.

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[Serendipity]

And scaring people can be illegal. It's against US law (I'm sure) to say the word "hijack" on board a plane. If you happen to meet a friend named Jack on board a plane, be sure to say "Hello," and nothing else!

[CBranski]

Originally posted by Serendipity:
And scaring people can be illegal. It's against US law (I'm sure) to say the word "hijack" on board a plane. If you happen to meet a friend named Jack on board a plane, be sure to say "Hello," and nothing else!


Absolutely correct, Dippy. Cartoonish cut outs stationed at security checkpoints in the Milwaukee airport remind some of the less intelligent passengers that joking about bombs, weapons, etc. is a federal felony. Yet some do it anyway...

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"Every Man a King, But No One Wears a Crown."
"If You Can't Beat Them, Arrange to Have Them Beaten."

[Ada_Doom]

What sort of penalties do you face for impersonating a criminal?

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Cake or death?

[Serendipity]

They sit you in a cardboard-cutout electric chair and pump 20,000 pretend volts through you!

Seriously, Ada, why should they get away with it?

Logically, there's no such thing as impersonating a criminal: impersonating a criminal is a criminal offence!

[~wildangel~]

They shouldnt have done it anyways http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Ditto what the old one and dippy say

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"Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot"


My Palace! (http://fairmayden1.homestead.com/fairmayden.html)

[Idnew]

Well if it isn't our Judge showing up for his monthly visit. http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Have to agree they need to be punished.

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(ö¿ö)Too Many Freaks, Not Enough Circuses(ô¿ô)

My Home Spot (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/Doing_Whatever.htm) My Family (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/MyFamily.htm)

[Ada_Doom]

Not saying they shouldn't be punished, just think that everyone is doing it a bit brown! Surely it is a matter for the school, not the judiciary?

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Cake or death?

[paulgro]

It's against the law to yell fire in a crowded room, let's say a movie house. You will be fined or go to jail or both. Your way of thinking says the movie house should just ban the person from being able to go there again. Yelling fire may have been a joke, but what about the people that got trampled when every one ran out. In this case, what if someone was literally scared to death? That's why these laws are enforced!

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[This message has been edited by paulgro (edited March 21, 2001).]

[Ada_Doom]

I see your point, but I still think jail is OTT. A fine or community service would surely be cheaper, more useful to the community, and not take up a cell that could be used for someone dangerous. Anyone that is scared to death by a shout of fire would have to be a) already very ill, or b) incredibly highly-strung.

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Cake or death?

[Serendipity]

So the very ill or the incredibly highly-strung deserve to die? Irresponsible behaviour is irresponsible behaviour.

[paulgro]

This is stupid and zero tolerance!!!

Felony charges dropped against two Pensacola
first-graders


The Associated Press

PENSACOLA, Fla. - Prosecutors have dropped felony charges against two
first-graders arrested at separate schools last week after they were accused of
kicking staff members.

State Attorney Curtis Golden said the decision Wednesday to dismiss charges
of battery on a school official were based on the students' ages, the lack of
injuries, the children's intent and the fact that no weapons were involved.

Golden said he could not comment on whether the 8-year-old girl and 7-year-old
boy would face misdemeanor charges because that information is confidential.

The decision follows outrage among some in the community over the arrests
and worries by city officials that they hurt Pensacola's image.

Both children were taken away in police cars. The girl was led away in
handcuffs and the boy, although not cuffed, was shown being escorted by an
officer on a television news broadcast.

Golden said prosecutors planned to meet with police and school officials to
discuss how such cases should be handled in the future.

"We would like to understand the schools' zero-tolerance against violence
policy, and, secondly, we would like them to understand how we evaluate the
cases when they come to us," he said.

Pensacola Police Chief Jerry Potts said officers have little choice but to arrest
students if school officials want to pursue charges under the 1996 law that
made battery against school officials a felony. Battery against most other
people is a misdemeanor.

Potts said one alternative may be for officers to file reports without taking
children into custody. He said the decision to use handcuffs depends on
whether an officer believes a child is violent or could cause physical harm.

"We don't like the idea, either," Potts said.

Escambia County School Superintendent Jim Paul said it is up to principals to
decide whether to call police but that should be done only as a last resort.
School officials, however, cannot prohibit teachers or other staffers from
pressing charges, he said.

Information from: Pensacola News Journal

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"I have not failed. I've just found
10,000 ways that won't work."

Ferrets Place (http://pub20.ezboard.com/bferretscomputerstuff)

[Ada_Doom]

Originally posted by Serendipity:
So the very ill or the incredibly highly-strung deserve to die? Irresponsible behaviour is irresponsible behaviour.

That's not what I was saying, I was aying, that it is unlikely that any such people would be around at the time.
I'm not going to win this argument am I? http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif



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Cake or death?

[Idnew]

NO http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

I don't think they need jail time. Probation, community service, fined is worse than jail time sometime.

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(ö¿ö)Too Many Freaks, Not Enough Circuses(ô¿ô)

My Home Spot (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/Doing_Whatever.htm) My Family (http://members.tripod.com/~freeatlast_3/MyFamily.htm)

[RockBottomDLux]

i agree with everyone (i think) sometimes community service is a good idea. there are some ppl who would go out and do it again after their sentence is up, but for some kids, they just needed to let steam off (except, it was in the wrong way!)

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Keep rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin'......or what ever you are doing!

[Ada_Doom]

That's what I was trying to say, I think. Cheers Rock! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Cake or death?

[RockBottomDLux]

...waiting...

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Keep rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin'......or what ever you are doing!

[Ada_Doom]

For what?

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Cake or death?

So who thinks a 3 feet tall, 50 pound child can do any kind of damage to a 150 pound 6 feet tall teacher?

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Co-Owner
Bueno Technologies

[Ada_Doom]

The odd superficial scratch maybe....

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Cake or death?

[RockBottomDLux]

or there is the "cry so he will pick me up and then i poke his eyes" trick.
then again there is the "cry so he will pick me up and then i latch onto his head" manuvour
yet stil there is the "cry so he will pick me up and then i kick him where it will hurt the most

theres lots more, but those are the basics http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
*LOL*

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Keep rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin'......or what ever you are doing!

[~wildangel~]

ROCK: were you a really bad child when you were little? Just wondering...for some reason that thought crossed my mind because I have never known a small child to poke someones eyes out or latch onto there heads!

Watch out!Here he comes...Its the child from HELL!!! http://angelfire.animfactory.com/animations/people_a_l/baby/ninja_kick_md_wht.gif

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"Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot"




[This message has been edited by ~wildangel~ (edited April 03, 2001).]

[RockBottomDLux]

him again? aahhhh! http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
no wild, i wasnt a bad kid, i was prolly the best one in the neighborhood. and im serious.

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Keep rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin'......or what ever you are doing!

[Ada_Doom]

When I was an au pair a child tried to scratch my eyes out. So I ate it. (JOKE!)

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An organisation is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different branches at different levels, some climbing up, some falling down. The monkeys on top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces.The monkeys on the bottom look up and see nothing but !%!%!%!%!%!%!%!%s.

[~wildangel~]

lol, thats sick Ada http://www.dumblaws.com/ubb/tongue.gif

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"Where theres a will theres a way"


Enter into "The Blackhole...hahahahahahaha" (http://fairmayden1.homestead.com/blackhole.html)

I have read both sides of the arguement and here is how I see it.... for the most part zero tolerence is a good thing, but always no matter what there are exceptions or students who don't fit with-in normal parameters, my brother for instance was arrested for injuring another student on his bus. The only person who acted as a witness was the bus driver who never even saw it. I kid who got hurt told everybody and their mother that it was this other kid who did but they still took the word of the bus driver over everything else and attepted to press charges to the fullest extent against him. It was't until our lawyer got involved that the charges were dropped and as for the kid who actually hurt him, nuthin' happened to him. So much for zero tolerence. The point is simple there are just to may different factors in each case for any to be lumped together under one penalty

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I rule

deleted this post because i didnt notice that it was already mentioned in a previous post

[This message has been edited by Insatia (edited March 21, 2002).]

Zero Tolerance is an effective deterrent against weapons possession and many other dangerous actions in an environment full of stress and too many people in close proximity. So are many other fascist, totalitarian police states ruling by intimidation. Is it good or bad? Ask the next generation of criminals 10 years from now. Ask all the people that can't handle the stress... those that survive. That is the real issue, more so than someone being scared for 10 seconds until they find out someone is joking.

Also, jail and prison are not for children. I spent a night there due to friend's mischief. (note: you aren't guilty by association, you're an accomplice by association) I was surrounded by murderors, rapists, theives and drug dealers. My cell mate was a crystal meth dealer. I dealt with this as an adult, but it was very hard.

Treating a child or a teenager as a felon, makes them into a felon.

Teachers have a great deal of influence over youth, and many of them are so inadequately prepared its stupifying. A common mentality is just treat kids like papers, something to be graded and returned. Many teachers are better suited to deal with paperwork than people.

Once a teacher told me, "If I wanted your opinion, I would give it to you." This was said in front of the entire class, embarrassing me and inciting a lot of resentment towards him and the authority he represented. Since then, I began to resist authority more and more.

One comment altered my perspective of authority, what affect did the administration plan by having the children (age 7 and 8!!!) arrested? Fear. They want to cause fear. I am guessing they do this because they are afraid. They should be, because history states that totalitarian states are overthrown...

Daraknor
I am That i Am.

[Phreakmeister]

The best way, life shows, to treat criminals, is not to punish them, but to resocialize them. Murderers who are locked away for 20 years and are then released as even worse murderers are a danger to everyone. People who enter the justice system as a murderer but are then resocialized, to make them more disciplined, leave the justice system as responsible adults.

Murderers, or any other criminal for that matter, needs to be taught discipline, needs to be resocialized. That's in everyone's interest. The punishments shouldn't be HARDER, they should be BETTER. Community service helps.

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